EricMilligan

I know exactly what you mean about “love boat”, xstokes. I am acutely aware that when I play in a melody line using a Rhodes or B3 patch, the track can sound like Muzak (elevator music). It bothers me quite a bit, actually, because with a good vocalist, I think the tracks would not sound that way at all. I do know that my melody sense is more lyrical and simple than contemporary pop songs or alt and NuRnB for that matter. If I was a student in a music school like Berkeley (I’d never get in) I am sure I’d be severely criticized for a lack of imagination in the construction of melodies. I’ve been thinking that I should spend a bit of time studying artists like Charlie Puth who really knows how to do this well. :)

Eric

Thanks for the positive comment, Micky. Definitely needs a vocalist. I will check out Mykael as you suggested.

Eric

Thanks, 4maly. That’s what I was trying for.

Eric

Thanks, Steve. I actually didn’t fuss much over the mix. As I mentioned to CinCoCent, this track is actually 4 years old. I have updated versions of some of the instruments (the Rhodes in this version is the stock instrument included with Logic Pro) and better effects plugins. But, I didn’t replace anything, so I think that’s telling me something. Sometimes better to just leave well enough alone, I guess.

Eric

Thanks, CinCoCent. Very nice to get some positive feedback. I had forgotten about this track entirely. I actually did it 4 years ago! Ran out of ideas on how to extend it, I guess. But, the reaction from LM members has been pretty good, so perhaps I should try again.

Eric

Thanks, Terry.

I worked a lot on the bass. Devin Hoffman, the lead composer of the original, is a very excellent bass player from what I've read. The bass pattern for the first couple of bars was pretty easy to reproduce, except for the slides that he used in his original. I don't know how to do that with my bass instrument plugin yet.

But, further on in the original track, the bass part got quite submerged in the mix, and it was hard to distinguish it. I EQ'd the original to try to isolate it, but that wasn't entirely successful. But, I think I got most of it.

I believe there are really only 3 or maybe 4 actual patterns in the entire song and the chord progression doesn't change at all, which was a surprise to me. The varied melody lines and instrumentation for each section make it seem like there's much more variation in the underlying chord progression than there really is.

A very good learning exercise for me!

Eric

Thanks, eighteen. I'm a big fan of Daft Punk as well. They are truly experts with vocoders and, I think, talk box as well. I don't know what they use, but I don't think the vocoders are VSTs. I think they are original hardware units. I need to go back and listen to their stuff again because I think there are some good lessons about what works well and what doesn't.

Anyway, I do appreciate the feedback.

Eric

Thanks, Maj. I really liked the original song. It was used as background for a promo of a movie. That's how I heard it. Movie wasn't that great apparently, but the song was really good. I figured it would be a good learning exercise to reproduce it, sort-of. :)

Thanks, Ronabo.

I actually have about 3-4 different vocoder tracks going simultaneously, each one either a different vocoder plugin or a different patch. I wanted to thicken up the vocal, but I think it probably just resulted in it getting muffled, as you said. On reflection, I think I pushed the vocal back in the mix because I knew it really wasn't very good, so didn't want it to be too prominent. :)

Steve also commented that the Vox needs to be cleaned-up, so I think there's a consensus that I need to do more work on the mix. I appreciate the advice.

Thanks for the suggestion, Steve. I did try to adjust the timing of the modulator vocal using Flextime editing in Logic. But, it wasn't very successful. I'll try your suggestion. I assume I should bounce the vocoder output down to an audio track, then chop that up into regions. Not sure if I need to actually make loops per se, just chunks of audio that I can try to place better in the groove.

Worth a try. If I get an improved version, I'll re-post.

Eric

Hi, Neo.

See my response to Terry's comment, below. I'd be very interested in any advice you can provide on how to ge the timing synced up properly. It's really frustrating. I think I did a nice tight job constructing the backing track for this, but the vocoder parts really ruin the groove. I'm almost inclined to delete the track and just post the backing track, but it's actually kind of repetitive and not very interesting. This song (including the original version) is a good example of a production that absolutely relies on the vocal part for interest and value. Not allowing the instrumental backing to compete in terms of loudness or frequency range with the vocal part was a good learning exercise for me.

Thanks, Terry.

I'm coming to the conclusion that I need to record the carrier midi track simultaneously when recording the modulator vocal track to keep the timing synced better. For this project I did the vocal track first, then recorded the midi, then manually edited the midi to try to get them synced up properly. Had a lot of latency issues generally with the entire project (too many plugins and not enough RAM?). Disabling plugins helped a bit, but vocoder parts that seemed OK when soloed, slipped out of sync when the entire project was played and bounced. Or, perhaps I should just face the truth that I'm really no competition for Daft Punk and should forget about attempting vocoder melody tracks. I should reserve vocoders for sustained notes and chords.

Any tips?

Thanks, Cary. The original is way better, but I learned a lot trying to do a cover from scratch.

Thanks, Phil. I'm not really satisfied with the quality of this track, but I've spent way too much time trying to get the vocoder parts to fit in the groove. Really difficult to match the phrasing of the excellent vocals in the original version.

Eric

Thank-you, Daniall, for the comments on my track. I really like doing Dance style music, but realize that I have a lot to learn about making it good. Thanks for the encouragement!

Eric

Thanks, Michael

Don't know why I didn't see your comment until today. I appreciate the encouragement.

Eric

Thanks for the suggestion about Tonal Balance, Fidiu. I actually have the plugin, but hadn't used it. Am working with it now and I think it will definitely help me. Thanks again.

Eric

Thanks for the encouragement. I am embarrassed to admit that I've been at it much longer than you, so the just proves that I'm either a really really slow learner or just plain hopeless. :). I guess my best excuse is that I have a short attention span and really don't stick to one genre. Would probably make better progress if I did

Thanks again,

Eric

Thanks, Ruslan.

Thanks, Jamid. Because I chopped up the acapella and re-arranged the order of the vocal phrases, I changed the "story" of the original version by Jenna - a little bit anyway. It left me in a bit of a box, actually, so I wasn't able to end things up like she did in the original. This version probably needs another verse. But, I think the arrangement does work OK. However, the instrumentation needs work and I guess I really over-did it with processing on the vocals. But, hey, that's one of the real benefits of being here on Looperman. I can get constructive feedback and advice from other members. :)

Thanks again.

Eric

Hi, Danke. Thanks for providing feedback on the track. If you look at the response to Nicolo's comment (HenryPascal) you will see the details about how I went overboard with processing all the vocal tracks in the project. This is NOT the way Jenna's original acapella sounds. Putting on too much reverb is a rookie error. I should know better! :)

I'm going to re-think the approach to the vocals and, as Nicolo suggested, work on the instrumentation to get more variation.

Thanks again,

Eric

Thanks Nicolo for the helpful feedback on the track. Danke has commented on the vocals as well, so clearly I need to make some adjustments. The original acapella from Jenna is nice and clean. I guess I went overboard on the processing.

I layered three copies of the vocals, very slightly offset a few milliseconds to thicken up the vocals. I also applied different EQ settings to each of the three main vocal tracks and some delay, as well as different levels of reverb. Three are also 2 or 3 additional vocal tracks for the "embellishments", heavily processed (e.g., EQ focused on a narrow frequency band).

All of this probably is just too much processing. Too much reverb. This morning, even before I read your comment and Danke's comment I thought to myself that I should've been more judicious in how and where I layered on all the processing.

I also agree with you about the instrumentation being repetitive. I actually realized that and rationalized it by thinking that I got variation from the vocals, but on reflection I think I need to work harder on the instrumentation.

I very much appreciate your advice on the track. I'm going to work on improving it.

Eric