Thanks for the comment AF. Very sorry about the delay in responding to you. I was off Looperman for some time and didn't realize you had commented on my track.

Eric

Thank-you, Daniall, for the comments on my track. I really like doing Dance style music, but realize that I have a lot to learn about making it good. Thanks for the encouragement!

Eric

I totally agree about Looperman. It is so great to get real constructive feedback from other Looperman members. I also agree about the problem finding good vocals. It is very frustrating. I have, on occasion, resorted to doing the vocals on my tracks myself, but my singing is beyond atrocious.

There must be thousands of decent, but unknown singers out there who would really like to participate on a track, but I have no idea how to connect with them. Also, doing lyrics is a major roadblock for me. I've got lots of tracks with melodies and clear ideas about the kind of vocal I want, but even if I could somehow find a singer, not much point if I don't have lyrics.

I think this is the greatest frustration for me and, now that I think of it, it is possibly the reason that periodically "bail out" from making music - because I just can't take my tracks to the state that I hear in my head. I guess I could hire a vocalist on a site like SoundBetter, but the track and lyrics would have to be really really good to justify that. Not there yet.

Thanks, Topclass! My favourite EDM genre is definitely trance. I guess many of the genres seem deceptively simple, but actually the production work is quite complex. I find that really good trance is very difficult to do and I'm not even close to what the pros can do or what I'd like to be able to produce. But, it really is fun music. Spudsy had some good critiques in his comments a few months ago. I really should try to remix this track and see if I can improve it. It's hard, sometimes, to know when something is "finished".

Thanks again.

Eric

Hi, Cyborgnyc. Sorry for the delay in responding to your comment. Haven't been very active on Looperman for a while. (I tend to go through fallow periods when not much is happening music-wise.). Anyway, I appreciate your comment.

The "vocals" are all from Icarus, which has a really good set of vocoder patches, and it's easy to add more using external audio files. Listening to the track again after months away from it, I think the mix is actually a bit muddy. Spudsy had some interesting suggestions for revising the mix which might improve it.

The thick synth sound is basically just a supersaw present patch in the Falcon VST. I think I tweaked it slightly, but not a great deal.

I put an EQ plugin effect on every channel in the mix and I generally cut off all frequencies below 20 hz. sometimes higher. I usually cut off the very high frequencies as well.

Then, I do try to focus the sound of each instrument/channel in a particular region of the frequency spectrum so things don't get really muddy. I could have done that better in this track I think.

I do routinely use compression to tighten bass and drum parts. Sometimes, more than one compressor per channel. I think that helps make them more distinct in the mix.

I often use two, sometimes three different patches running simultaneously for bass lines, EQing each one differently to focus the patch on different sonic features (e.g, a hard transient attach vs. full sub bass).

I routinely use the same layering approach for the kick drum parts. I'm trained as a drummer, but actually suck big time at making good drum parts. (Can't figure out why I'm so bad at it!). Anyway, I will typically resort to midi drum loops from a drum machine VST, but I often program and layer in a kick drum part using Metrum, which has a fantastic selection of kick drum sounds.

That's all pretty standard technique I think. Always trying to learn more and make things sound better. Getting a really beautiful, clear mix, like you hear in Daft Punk's Random Access Memories still eludes me. But then, I'm no Mike Guzauski! :)

Hey, Spudsy! I really appreciate the constructive advice on this track. Thanks for taking the time to critique it. The kind of help is actually kind of unusual here, but it is exactly what I need to improve my stuff. Haven't listened to this track for quite a while. I'm going to work through it with your comments and do some experimentation.

I've kind of avoided using side chain compression because I'm very unsure about setting it up, although I have done it successfully in the past. I guess its like programming automation on tracks, once you get the hang of it, it isn't so scary.

No question that drums is a serious weak spot in my tracks generally. I tend to find a midi loop that seems to work and I get lazy and don't work on variation like I should. Your comment raises a different point, of course. Just a bad choice of extra drums.

As far as the lead sound is concerned, I think I know how to give it width in the mix, but not sure about movement, except to experiment with chorus or phaser effects?

Thanks again for your advice on this.

Eric

Thanks, sqrtofneg1. Again, I apologize for not responding to your post sooner. I have been off Looperman for some time I guess.

Thanks, Kingmadi. I appreciate the feedback. I guess flutes are a bit unusual in this kind of track. But, seemed to work, so that's what I went with.

Checked out some of your tracks. Nice work! Mixes sound really good, by the way. Nicely balanced. I'm still struggling to learn how to do mixes properly. It's been years and I'm still not getting the quality that I hear from release by some of my favourite artists. I guess being a pro really makes a difference. It's the ears, not the equipment.

Been listening to Bruno Mar's new album, 24 Magic. First saw the video for the title track in heavy rotation when I was in the UK a few weeks ago. This guy is a serious musician and a real perfectionist, like every great artist is, I guess. Apparently he thinks nothing of throwing out chord sequences, lyrics, melodies, beats, whatever, and just starting over if the song doesn't keep him engaged for every single second.

I love the retro R&B feel to that album. I'm a big fan of Brody Brown, who co-produced the album (another really good musician). He's got a way of blending the new with the old. I'm still trying to figure out how to do that. :)

Yes, it has been a long time. Sorry for not responding sooner. Just got back from 2 weeks in Scotland. Basically offline the whole time. Yes, played it all in by hand. Other than drum parts. I agree that there are some timing issues with how the various parts sync up, timing wise. I need to work on that more I guess. I do use quantization, but usually give it some flexibility so it is not robotic. I should experiment with strict quantization perhaps and see if that improves things.

Anyway, thanks for the constructive criticism. Need more of that.

Eric

Thanks for the comment, Eighteen. I agree, the use of the flute and, in fact, the french horns in a pretty traditional dance track is a bit weird. At least I think it is. I haven't had much time to listen to the latest stuff for quite a while, so am feeling a bit out of touch with what's current. Was listening yesterday to Beats 1 radio on Apple Music and was quite surprised by some of the "new" tracks that are considered to be cutting edge stuff.

Anyway, no the vocals are built-in phrases triggered by preset vocoder patches in the Icarus synth plugin. That synth makes it pretty easy to create new vocoder patches that use vocal phrases that you record and the built in synth engines in the plugin. I haven't actually tried that yet, but I intend to do so when I get a bit of time. A couple of years ago I recorded about 30 or 40 short phrases that could be used with vocoder apps. Setting them up as inputs to a vocoder signal processing plugin is a bit complicated, but I think that Icarus greatly simplifies things. Different approach, because it works within the instrument plugin, not as an audio effect plugin.

I did some research on vocaloid for Mac. Looks like I'd have to buy the Steinberg DAW in order to use the Mac editor. Then, I'd need to bounce the resulting track to audio and import it into Logic, which is the DAW I use. I need to do more research to see if there's a cheaper and less complicated solution. It really is something that interests me.

Eric

Steve: No, that actually didn't occur to me. I did try EQing that track, but I do have some other filter plugins that I could experiment with. Good idea. I am assuming that you are suggesting automating the cutoff point on the filter to progressively cut back on the high frequency content as the phrase plays? I've never actually automated anything in my tracks other than volume and pan. This is a good opportunity to learn something new. I think it's pretty simple to do. Just need to read up on how to do it in Logic.

If I'm successful, I'll post a new version and, as suggested by Mosaic, I'll remaster the track to give a bit more oomph.

Eric

Thanks for taking the time to provide feedback on my track, Mosaic. Very much appreciated.

I actually mastered three versions of the track using LANDR, each producing a different volume level and level of compression. I usually opt for the middle level, but for some reason (which I can't remember) I decided to go for the lowest intensity level on this track. In retrospect, I think I should have gone one notch higher.

Crucethus, in his comment, has suggested that I insert a low-pass filter on the synth track in the project. I think I'll give that a try and then remaster to a higher volume level generally. Of course, this means that I need to figure out how to automate the controls in my filter plugin, something that I've never tried before. :)

Thanks again,

Eric

Thanks, Ed. I am embarrassed to admit that I've let my guitar chops, which were never that great frankly, totally evaporate. I've got two acoustics hanging on the wall in my home studio/office and I basically never pick them up. I really should get back on that trail. I use an Access Virus outboard synth as my controller keyboard and it does sound great, but other than that, all of my instruments are virtual. I guess I compose around progressions too, but I need to learn more of them so I can get greater variety and interest in my stuff. I'm keeping a list of progressions to try out. The mix on that track was difficult and I'm still not sure if I got it right. The synth chords have a pretty good bass floor to them if you listen to them on headphones or a decent set of studio monitors, so I originally did the track without a separate bass track. Didn't sound like it needed it. Then I bounced it to MP3 and played it in my car. Sounded awful. No bass and really annoying high frequencies dominating. There's a lot of noise in the synth chord part. That's programmed into the patch on purpose I think so that it cuts through. I added 3 bass tracks and it sounded better, but I still find the high frequency content a bit much and I have tinnitus, so have some measure of hearing loss for high frequencies. So, I always worry that, for others, my mixes actually don't sound like I hear them.