EricMilligan

Thanks, LilJuly. I had problems with this one for some reason, despite the fact that Jenna's acapella was really good. Anyway, I do appreciate the feedback.

Eric

Thanks, rednebula.

I am planning to work on the track some more, so will see about setting the melody line a bit higher in the mix. Glad you liked the melody line. It really is meant for vocals.

Sometimes I get frustrated and do the vocals myself, although I am an absolutely horrible singer. But for this track, there was just no way I could do vocals on it. I'm getting some ideas for lyrics. Not much sense getting a vocalist lined up if there are no words! :)

Eric

Thanks, Heath. I don't think trance has to be boring and repetitive, although I agree that some of it is. I like a focus on melody. Perhaps that's why JoeFunktastic felt that this really wasn't trance.

I have had a tendency in my tracks to make the kick too dominant I think. I am trying to dial it down a bit. My wife calls my music "thump, thump music". That's not meant as a compliment, but it accurately reflects the way I have mixed kicks and bass in my tracks.

I think this track would be a lot better if it had real vocals. Just need to work out some lyrics. And, find a singer of course! :)

Eric

Thanks very much Ruslan. Nice to hear from you!

Eric

Thanks very much for the explanation. I use Logic as well. And I also use Ozone. Haven't used the dynamic EQ. I'm assuming that you are using automated EQ to duck beats because the drum tracks in audio files, not midi files. All the tracks in this project are midi, except for the sound effects (boomers).

So, I could get the same result simply by editing the midi information in the drum tracks? Either removing or muting the midi notes for the second beats?

I should use the EQ technique for tracks that are audio files?

Eric

Thanks, Jamid. I've concluded that although EDM seems like it should easy to make, in fact it is very complex. Producers need to master a whole variety of skills to produce something that is good. I have so much to learn, and so little time. :)

Eric

Thank-you for the feedback, Sweetcherries. I'm determined to learn how to do decent trance tracks.

Eric

Thanks for the advice, Nesmanga. I will definitely check out tracks from Perfecto Records. And NES Manga TV on Youtube as well.

Eric

Hi, Nicolo! Thanks for commenting on this track. I've tried for years to make a good trance track. I don't know why it seems to be so hard for me.

I supposed this could be synth pop. I think most of my tracks are probably in the pop genre. I don't feel embarrassed by that. Making a good pop track is not easy. Making a good EDM track is definitely not easy either.

From other comments it looks like I need to do more work on the bass parts and the kick drum track. I have about 3 or 4 kick drum tracks on the project, so there is more refinement required. MPOProduction has suggested, I think, that the kick needs to be tuned properly. I know that's supposed to be really important, at least for some EDM genres. I know how to do that, at least in theory. I guess it's time to practice.

Thanks again for the feedback.

Eric

Thanks for the feedback on the track.

As you can see from my reply to Kyle, I've had trouble getting the low frequency parts of the track to sit right in the mix. If I understand your suggestion correctly, you think I should use automation of tuning on the kick track to lower the frequency. Essentially, tuning the kick to the key of the song? Have I understood correctly?

Eric

Hi, Kyle. Thanks for the advice on this track.

I had written a nice lengthy response to your post, but something went “wrong” and it didn’t post. Lost the whole thing.

So, here is another go at it. I’ve got tinnitus, probably from spending too many years in front of loud guitar amps, a long time ago. Anyway, that apparently means that I probably have hearing loss for high frequencies. Consequently, I probably tend to set those parts a bit higher in the mix than I should. I think things are in balance, but they really aren’t. Anybody with normal hearing would hear the track as being out of balance. That’s not an excuse for how this track sounds, but it might be the explanation.

I actually had NO bass part on this track at all, but added a couple of layered bass tracks to the project pretty much at the last minute. I really never found bass sounds that I thought worked perfectly. The track got buddy real quick, even with compression. I ended up EQing the bass parts a lot to keep them focused and to keep the mix as clean as possible. But, it still was muddier than I had wanted. Clearly, I need to spend more time finding the right bass sounds.

Thanks again for the feedback. I really do appreciate it.

Eric

Thanks for the very nice feedback on the track, Patricia. It's great to see you back on Looperman. It's been a while, not that I should talk. I've been here only sporadically and haven't posted any tracks for quite a while. Anyway, I've often wondered how you were doing and if you would return.

I must tell you that I have been sitting on a partially finished track using your spoken acapella, "Summer Breeze". I actually think it's pretty good, or capable of being pretty good. BUT, I need a male vocalist (baritone) for it. Needs to have a voice like Luther Vandross or perhaps Barry White. So, it has sat on my hard disk for years, unfinished. Very frustrating because I think it could be something worth listening to.

You had a cold when you did that acapella and it gave your voice a husky character that really set the feel of the track. That's what inspired me.

Regards,

Eric

Thanks, Patricia. It's nice to try different genres. I like all kinds of music. Sometimes I wonder if I'd do better if I just focused on learning how to do one kind really well. But, I'm just not that disciplined I guess! :)

I totally agree about Looperman. It is so great to get real constructive feedback from other Looperman members. I also agree about the problem finding good vocals. It is very frustrating. I have, on occasion, resorted to doing the vocals on my tracks myself, but my singing is beyond atrocious.

There must be thousands of decent, but unknown singers out there who would really like to participate on a track, but I have no idea how to connect with them. Also, doing lyrics is a major roadblock for me. I've got lots of tracks with melodies and clear ideas about the kind of vocal I want, but even if I could somehow find a singer, not much point if I don't have lyrics.

I think this is the greatest frustration for me and, now that I think of it, it is possibly the reason that periodically "bail out" from making music - because I just can't take my tracks to the state that I hear in my head. I guess I could hire a vocalist on a site like SoundBetter, but the track and lyrics would have to be really really good to justify that. Not there yet.

Thanks, Topclass! My favourite EDM genre is definitely trance. I guess many of the genres seem deceptively simple, but actually the production work is quite complex. I find that really good trance is very difficult to do and I'm not even close to what the pros can do or what I'd like to be able to produce. But, it really is fun music. Spudsy had some good critiques in his comments a few months ago. I really should try to remix this track and see if I can improve it. It's hard, sometimes, to know when something is "finished".

Thanks again.

Eric

Thanks, Vigwig! Greetings from Ottawa. Very rainy here this week, after an unusually hot and dry summer so far. Anyway, I'm glad you liked the track. Does definitely need more work. Still dreaming of finding good vocalists who would be wiling to work on my stuff. Ruslan definitely makes some very nice loops. An interesting guy. A Russian lawyer working in the UAE, making EDM on the side.

Eric

Thanks for all the feedback. You are absolutely right. Looperman’s greatest value in my view is that we can get constructive input from other members on what works and what doesn’t work so well in our tracks.

It has been a while since I developed the Box Room track, but I’m pretty sure I was aware (or at least I suspected) that I might have a key change going on in the track. I remember thinking of the Daft Punk track, “Within”, where Montreal Pianist Chilly Gonzales had to come up with a way to bridge sections from A minor to Bb minor. He had to find a chord that played a role in both keys. He chose F. (There’s a really interesting VICE interview with him as one of the collaborators on Random Access Memories where he explains this.). He’s like Jacob Collier in his focus on the role of harmony in music.

Muted trumpet is from Native Instrument’s Session Horns Pro. I think it’s a really good VST. I do tend to layer different VST instruments for strings and horns, but on this one I just used the Session Horns patch on its own.

I’m not sure I agree with you about the vocal processing. I think, on reflection, that I over-did it. It sounds kind of harsh to me in some areas now. Some level of effects I think was OK throughout, but I think I should have been more selective.

I’m not exactly sure what you meant by the chords at 0:32 sounding “too easy”. Definitely agree that playing them on the first count makes thinks sound kind of “wooden” in the track. I think that was just laziness on my part. I struggled to find a chord progression that worked. Once I had that I didn’t make the effort to play a more nuanced piano track. It isn’t quantized, but the timing is pretty close to being exactly on the beats, which gets boring. I think I usually do better.

But, I also think you are suggesting either that the chord inversion was “too easy” or that the chord itself was not as interesting as it could have been. That’s a more substantive issue and I’d really appreciate hearing more explanation from you on that, if possible. The first chord is a Bb7 major, second inversion. Second chord is Eb major with the fifth (Bb) doubled in the bass. Keeps Bb as the common foundation for both chords. (I’m trying to avoid always using the root of the chord in the left hand). Anyway, I’m definitely interested in your advice on what I might do with those chords.

Regards,

Eric

Hi, Cyborgnyc. Sorry for the delay in responding to your comment. Haven't been very active on Looperman for a while. (I tend to go through fallow periods when not much is happening music-wise.). Anyway, I appreciate your comment.

The "vocals" are all from Icarus, which has a really good set of vocoder patches, and it's easy to add more using external audio files. Listening to the track again after months away from it, I think the mix is actually a bit muddy. Spudsy had some interesting suggestions for revising the mix which might improve it.

The thick synth sound is basically just a supersaw present patch in the Falcon VST. I think I tweaked it slightly, but not a great deal.

I put an EQ plugin effect on every channel in the mix and I generally cut off all frequencies below 20 hz. sometimes higher. I usually cut off the very high frequencies as well.

Then, I do try to focus the sound of each instrument/channel in a particular region of the frequency spectrum so things don't get really muddy. I could have done that better in this track I think.

I do routinely use compression to tighten bass and drum parts. Sometimes, more than one compressor per channel. I think that helps make them more distinct in the mix.

I often use two, sometimes three different patches running simultaneously for bass lines, EQing each one differently to focus the patch on different sonic features (e.g, a hard transient attach vs. full sub bass).

I routinely use the same layering approach for the kick drum parts. I'm trained as a drummer, but actually suck big time at making good drum parts. (Can't figure out why I'm so bad at it!). Anyway, I will typically resort to midi drum loops from a drum machine VST, but I often program and layer in a kick drum part using Metrum, which has a fantastic selection of kick drum sounds.

That's all pretty standard technique I think. Always trying to learn more and make things sound better. Getting a really beautiful, clear mix, like you hear in Daft Punk's Random Access Memories still eludes me. But then, I'm no Mike Guzauski! :)

Thanks, Ed. This was a tough one for me. I did study music theory long ago, but not a whole seems to have stuck. It's very much hit or miss for me figuring out chord progressions. It gets very confusing! :0

I saw that you replied to my comment on your "Two Minutes" track, but the page seems to have gone missing on Looperman. Have never seen that before.

One of these days it would be great if we could collaborate on a track. I greatly admire your musicianship.

Eric

Thanks for the vote of confidence, Jagadesh. :)

I LOVE Lou Reed! You and I are clearly in the same situation vis a vis vocals. My advice is to just give it a try. My best results (which are still pretty bad) have been when I've taken more of an "acting" approach, putting on a particular character or "sound". Not sure if that makes sense. Like an actor putting on an accent. Nothing like my real speaking voice or even my real singing voice. Takes a bit of practice and experimentation. Also, I do a lot of comping of the vocals. Record multiple takes of short passages in Logic, which is really easy to do. Then comp the takes selecting the best parts (also very easy in logic). Trying to do a complete front to back vocal performance is hopeless for me and even the pros don't attempt that when recording, I think. Comping is very common.

Then processing. Obviously EQ and reverb and compression. I typically use double-tracking as well. Sometimes the Waves ADT plugin. Sometimes just copy parts of the audio track and offset the second track by couple of milliseconds.

My biggest challenge is pitch correction. I really haven't mastered that, although I have the tools to do it.

So, my advice is to give it ago. Your tracks are really good and it would be great to hear some vocals on top of them. Especially if you can do a Lou Reed thing.

Eric

Thanks, man. I'm all over the place with the stuff I do. Never know what's going to come out next. Maybe an opera? :)