EricMilligan

Hi, CitizenMofo. I find it hard to believe that I sing better than you, or anybody else! :) I have not yet come to my senses. I am attempting vocal parts out of desperation because I can't find good vocalists to collaborate with. Part of the problem is that my tracks cover a range of styles/genres. And, I will admit that sometimes I haven't followed through on collabs, usually because I felt that the track I was considering wasn't good enough or didn't actually have lyrics. I have a lot of difficulty writing lyrics. I have never focused on lyrics in songs, always on the instrumentals. In fact, I used to only like instrumental songs. That's put me at a disadvantage now I think. Anyway, I'd be interested in hearing any more detailed suggestions you might have for improving this song, if you have time. Crucethus has suggested more variation in the percussion track. He's right about that. I'm pretty lazy when it comes to building the drum tracks, which is a bit surprising because I was actually a drummer in my past life. I also have problems with song structure. I tend to latch on to one chord sequence and just stick with that for the whole song. Finding a good sequence for bridge, chorus, etc. seems to be a challenge for me. I think it is just laziness. Thanks again for the comment. I did appreciate it.

What???? You want the vocal stem? Really? The vocal is total crap!!! :) So, BlaqTi, did you want only the vocal stem for a remix? You would re-do the instrumental backing for your remix?

thanks for the positive feedback, kingmadi. I will definitely keep at it. :)

Hi, benjiko. I totally agree with you about the vocals letting things down in the track. It was nice to hear you say that the intro was good. It never occurred to me, however, that it would raise expectations that would then make the track more disappointing than it might have been otherwise, due to the crappy vocal. I think you are probably right about that. The only fix for that, of course, is to find a good vocalist to collaborate with. I do have vocoder plugins, but that vocal effect really isn't appropriate for everything I attempt. (emphasis on "attempt"!)

Hi, TrippyHippyCrew! "Weird" is a total understatement. You are being kind! :) They are pretty awful, which is why I put them so low in the mix. I was trying to minimize the damage to Looperman members' hearing. Thanks for the comment. Sorry I took so long in responding.

Hi, Steve. You definitely could be right about the bluesy female singer on this track. Frankly, anybody other than me would be better! :) I am astounded that anybody here on Looperman thinks the vocal had any redeeming qualities! Your reference to Rie Ockasiek was interesting. I keep wondering if there's some kind of "character" voice that I could find that would actually sound halfway acceptable. Other than the quality of my voice, the major problem I have is that I can't hold a note on pitch properly. My voice quavers, and it is particularly bad if I try to hold a note for any length of time. I think that's an issue of age because I have noticed that many professional singers have the same problem when they get older. So, the solution is to cut off each word/syllable and shift to a combination of singing/talking I think. Not that I want to focus on vocals. I'd much rather find a couple of good vocalists to collaborate with and leave the driving to them. :)

Thanks, MGproduct. Nice to hear from you! I guess I will get back to this. Does need more work on the mix, but most importantly, it needs a good vocalist. :)

Thanks,kdhsfm. Sorry for not acknowledging your comment sooner. Lost track. I do appreciate the feedback.

I like your first suggestion better! :)

Brado: that is a very kind offer! I would be very interested in having you try a remix. BUT, I think I do need to get some lyrics worked out first and I would want to re-record the vocals before I create the stems for you. For the record, the vocal track does have compression, and EQ, and reverb, and I used Auto-Tune to fix up the warbling pitch issues which permeated the entire track. Except that either I don't know how to use Auto-tune properly, or the warbling it so bad that even Auto-Tun can't fix it. :) As I mentioned in a previous response, I think I just need to find a range I can work in comfortably and I need to stop trying to hold notes. And, probably, I should use my condenser mic instead of my iPhone. Anyway, I much prefer the idea of having you do a mix instead of your suggestion of mounting a competition. That's way too much attention. What I really, really, want, is a competent singer. I don't understand why it is so hard to find people who can sing and who are willing to help out on tracks. Loads of producers and lots of rappers. There must be thousands of decent singers out there someplace.

Hi, Wikkid. thanks for the feedback. I'm VERY surprised at the encouragement I've been getting to make the vocals better. That certainly wasn't my intent or expectation when I posted the track. I keep thinking about some of those really embarrassing moments on American Idol auditions who clearly thought they were great when they were, well, "not". Watching those episodes made me realize that people sometimes just don't hear how they actually sound when they are singing. it's a strange phenomenon. Watched the movie, Florence Foster Jenkins, last week and it was the same thing. Meryl Streep was fantastic in the role (as usual), but oh my god - the singing. Same situation. I really don't want to think that I'm afflicted by the same thing. That said, I am going to try to work out some lyrics and if I get something worthwhile, I think I will try the vocals again. The one I posted was actually just sung into my iPhone in one take. I do have a decent mic and I do know how to comp vocals, so I should be able to improve things.

Wayne: Very good advice. Nobody has ever given me advice on vocals before, but then I've never done vocals before! :) I think your suggestion is very sound. I need to get some lyrics worked out as the next step. And, I've discovered that when I try to hold a note I warble off pitch horribly. So, the solution to that is to cut things off before I start wandering up and down and all around the actual note. In the shower I sound great! Of course, everybody does. But I also think you are correct in suggesting that I need to find a range that I'm comfortable with. But, most of all, I need to find a real singer.

Hi, Igor. Thanks for the encouragement. I've been told that I sound a bit like Leonard Cohen. Except he sang on key. :) There are no actual words in the vocal. All nonsense sounds. I think I might try re-recording the vocals once I develop some lyrics.

Thank-you, Gipish. I spend a lot of time on the melodies for my tracks. As for the bass, I actually have always wanted to play real electric bass, but never got the chance. I'm thinking of doing some online bass lessons to improve the bass parts for my tracks. I think there's something really satisfying about laying in a really tasty bass part. When I played in bands, I was on drums, guitar, or keyboard. Never touched a bass. I'm getting my revenge now, I guess! :)

A wise comment and sage advice, from you, Crucethus. I think you are right on the money. I do struggle with finding the something that sounds new and futuristic. I find that I am still working on getting that sound that I hear in my head. I appreciate your suggestions for remixing the Rhodes, making room for some guitar. Getting good guitar parts is a challenge for me, I must admit. I've got several virtual instruments but I find them very limiting and complex to use. And, as for the percussion fills, that's just me being lazy. I'm glad you called me on it. I can do better.

Thanks for you kind comment, Benton. I for sure can heard an old school singer like Marvin (definitely somebody I admired greatly). I hadn't thought of a duet, but on reflection I can see/hear what you mean. I think it comes from the interweaving melody lines toward the end of the track. That's a really interesting suggestion. :)

Thanks, Jody. I appreciate the encouragement. Just checked out your tracks. Nice stuff!

Eric

Thank-you, Jamid. I have removed almost all of the tracks I've posted over the years on Looperman and am starting over. I started off here trying to produce EDM, probably gravitating toward trance. Fellow Looperman members were encouraging and supportive, but the truth is that I really wasn't all that good at it. That was disappointing. I really like the music. But, for some reason, I seem to be creating stuff that links back more to the music I grew up with. I guess that's not the worst direction to go in. Backwards? :)

Thanks, Kingmadi. I appreciate the feedback. I guess flutes are a bit unusual in this kind of track. But, seemed to work, so that's what I went with.

Checked out some of your tracks. Nice work! Mixes sound really good, by the way. Nicely balanced. I'm still struggling to learn how to do mixes properly. It's been years and I'm still not getting the quality that I hear from release by some of my favourite artists. I guess being a pro really makes a difference. It's the ears, not the equipment.

Been listening to Bruno Mar's new album, 24 Magic. First saw the video for the title track in heavy rotation when I was in the UK a few weeks ago. This guy is a serious musician and a real perfectionist, like every great artist is, I guess. Apparently he thinks nothing of throwing out chord sequences, lyrics, melodies, beats, whatever, and just starting over if the song doesn't keep him engaged for every single second.

I love the retro R&B feel to that album. I'm a big fan of Brody Brown, who co-produced the album (another really good musician). He's got a way of blending the new with the old. I'm still trying to figure out how to do that. :)

Yes, it has been a long time. Sorry for not responding sooner. Just got back from 2 weeks in Scotland. Basically offline the whole time. Yes, played it all in by hand. Other than drum parts. I agree that there are some timing issues with how the various parts sync up, timing wise. I need to work on that more I guess. I do use quantization, but usually give it some flexibility so it is not robotic. I should experiment with strict quantization perhaps and see if that improves things.

Anyway, thanks for the constructive criticism. Need more of that.

Eric

Thanks for the comment, Eighteen. I agree, the use of the flute and, in fact, the french horns in a pretty traditional dance track is a bit weird. At least I think it is. I haven't had much time to listen to the latest stuff for quite a while, so am feeling a bit out of touch with what's current. Was listening yesterday to Beats 1 radio on Apple Music and was quite surprised by some of the "new" tracks that are considered to be cutting edge stuff.

Anyway, no the vocals are built-in phrases triggered by preset vocoder patches in the Icarus synth plugin. That synth makes it pretty easy to create new vocoder patches that use vocal phrases that you record and the built in synth engines in the plugin. I haven't actually tried that yet, but I intend to do so when I get a bit of time. A couple of years ago I recorded about 30 or 40 short phrases that could be used with vocoder apps. Setting them up as inputs to a vocoder signal processing plugin is a bit complicated, but I think that Icarus greatly simplifies things. Different approach, because it works within the instrument plugin, not as an audio effect plugin.

I did some research on vocaloid for Mac. Looks like I'd have to buy the Steinberg DAW in order to use the Mac editor. Then, I'd need to bounce the resulting track to audio and import it into Logic, which is the DAW I use. I need to do more research to see if there's a cheaper and less complicated solution. It really is something that interests me.

Eric

Steve: No, that actually didn't occur to me. I did try EQing that track, but I do have some other filter plugins that I could experiment with. Good idea. I am assuming that you are suggesting automating the cutoff point on the filter to progressively cut back on the high frequency content as the phrase plays? I've never actually automated anything in my tracks other than volume and pan. This is a good opportunity to learn something new. I think it's pretty simple to do. Just need to read up on how to do it in Logic.

If I'm successful, I'll post a new version and, as suggested by Mosaic, I'll remaster the track to give a bit more oomph.

Eric

Thanks for taking the time to provide feedback on my track, Mosaic. Very much appreciated.

I actually mastered three versions of the track using LANDR, each producing a different volume level and level of compression. I usually opt for the middle level, but for some reason (which I can't remember) I decided to go for the lowest intensity level on this track. In retrospect, I think I should have gone one notch higher.

Crucethus, in his comment, has suggested that I insert a low-pass filter on the synth track in the project. I think I'll give that a try and then remaster to a higher volume level generally. Of course, this means that I need to figure out how to automate the controls in my filter plugin, something that I've never tried before. :)

Thanks again,

Eric

Thanks, Ed. I am embarrassed to admit that I've let my guitar chops, which were never that great frankly, totally evaporate. I've got two acoustics hanging on the wall in my home studio/office and I basically never pick them up. I really should get back on that trail. I use an Access Virus outboard synth as my controller keyboard and it does sound great, but other than that, all of my instruments are virtual. I guess I compose around progressions too, but I need to learn more of them so I can get greater variety and interest in my stuff. I'm keeping a list of progressions to try out. The mix on that track was difficult and I'm still not sure if I got it right. The synth chords have a pretty good bass floor to them if you listen to them on headphones or a decent set of studio monitors, so I originally did the track without a separate bass track. Didn't sound like it needed it. Then I bounced it to MP3 and played it in my car. Sounded awful. No bass and really annoying high frequencies dominating. There's a lot of noise in the synth chord part. That's programmed into the patch on purpose I think so that it cuts through. I added 3 bass tracks and it sounded better, but I still find the high frequency content a bit much and I have tinnitus, so have some measure of hearing loss for high frequencies. So, I always worry that, for others, my mixes actually don't sound like I hear them.