Thanks for your feedback. I will take that into consideration although I felt like this track was pretty straight forward without too many instruments.
wow, todd — i am so glad i got to hear the before and after versions of this track. this treatment is really seriously a different experience, much more expressive. it’s checking out interactions like tween you and wayne and hearing the results that make looperman priceless. and the revised brass is totally on point. great work, man!
Thanks for checking back in! So glad you liked the revisions and thanks for your comment originally! Also happy you found the dialog helpful as well. I think Looperman can be an awesome community with people like Wayne around. I plan on paying it back someday when I'm able to help someone else who at that point is less knowledgeable and can use a few pointers. Until then I can offer just my opinions. :)
I did notice the waveform had changed and so did the mix, it really opened up, don't you think? The bass has it's place, the gits on the left and right don't interfere with the vox anymore.....I could go on and on.
That's what I hear but what do you think?
Compression on individual tracks or if you group them/send to aux buss will affect how it sounds when adjusting the master compression as well. Finding that balance is what makes this so hard. I think you are doing great!
Thanks for having another listen, you're awesome! *Looperman Gold Star for you today* :) Yes, I can now hear the difference, and it highlights the fact that I need to train my ears a lot more! I can now hear things sitting in different places more instead of everything just being the same loudness so to speak. This was a humbling yet much needed lesson for me to learn and I know I will continue to struggle with. Sometimes I feel like throwing my hands up and calling it quits, but for now I will keep at it. Thank you again for your help and encouragement!
Well the first thing i notice about a song is the waveform, if it looks like a big solid square mass than usually it will be too loud and over compressed. I will have to lower the volume on my gear to hear it without blowing my ears out. Not only is it usually too loud but all the instruments begin to get the same loudness in the mix and you lose the sense of depth in the song. The guitar is no longer playing a low key guitar strum in the background but now is as loud as the singing in the mix.
I have learned that if you watch the volume meter on the last device in your processing chain on your master channel, it can help you get clearer mixes and more depth. Most volume meters will show two things, 1) a peak level, in Ableton it is a lighter green and 2) average peak level which is the darker green part showing volume output. If you try to keep the peak level spiking at -1.50dB and the average level between -12 and -8dB then you not only get clear mixes but it also translates the best across different platforms like spotify, apple music, looperman.... when you upload them.
The bass usually dictates, in my songs, the average level. If i can get a clear bass sound between -12 and -8db, and i can fit the drums, gits and vocals neatly in there without going over those limits i set, then i have found that my mixes sound the best, clearest and loud. Now i am not the greatest mixer but i am improving over the years and have seen the same thing over and over, look at the waveform, it tells you a lot about what is happening in the mix.
Hope this helps, it's very complicated to describe in a few sentences.
DUDE! THANK YOU SO much for taking the time to come back and explain in greater detail for me. This is greatly appreciated and that alone makes this little community so valuable!
Ok, so I have gone back to the drawing board a little on this. I backed off some of the compression in both the mix and the master. I also did a little automation with the faders on the bass and one of the guitars. I know the original version I posted, the waveform was indeed blocky and now I see that the new version isn't nearly as much. I'm wondering if you gave this a listen again would you hear a difference at all. Maybe I didn't go far enough or went too far, I don't know. I have so much still to learn it feels overwhelming. :)
Thank you again for helping me out!!!
v cool arrangement for the vox, i like the gtrs a lot. the trumpet didn’t quite gel for me, tho — it was the only element that seemed kinda canned, everything else had a nice loose vibe.
Thank you for your feedback! It's funny, I didn't think the horns were sitting either when I first put them in and then I think I sort of ignored it and then they became "normal". Shows to trust your first instinct and act on it right away. I have uploaded a newer version now with a different kind of horn. Not 100% sure but I think they might be better, Thanks again!
This guitar work makes me happy, I would play it the same way. Beautiful piece of music, cool tempo and rhythm, a vibe of peace, summer ... a fav! Very good work!!!
Regards,
Michael
Dope track, it sounds sultry to me even though I have no idea what she's saying. Maybe that says more about me tho.
But to say even more about me, I doubt anything she's actually saying would be as interesting as peanut butter.
Cool idea. I like the vocals, i have no idea what she is singing about but the feel of the singing works well with the music. I would cut the compression or limiter a bit to give the instruments a little more breathing room in the mix, they are all at the same level and competing a bit, compression will do that. I do like the idea, ending was cool too.
Hi Wayne. Thanks for taking the time to listen and comment, I appreciate it. I'm still pretty new at this so if you could clarify just a tad that would be helpful. Do you feel like there is too much compression in the mixing process, the mastering process, or both, or it doesn't matter, overall there is too much? And just to not confuse myself, it's not a matter of turning some faders down on certain instruments? Thanks again!
Hey Mate, My apologies for being so Blunt. So Brick walling refers to the Waveform which literally looks like a brick. Reasons for this are usually using too much massive compressor/ limiter. There is nothing wrong with compression but you must lower the input to gain more dynamic sounds. When you brick-wall you sometimes lose the listener as it can become tiring to the ears to listen to. There are a few schools of thought on this sometimes called the ¨loudness wars¨. Believe me, a few years ago I was caught up in this as well. But I realized the comments people have With, my sounds now are more about how good the quality is and the stereo spatial separation as opposed to the slamming sounds. Less is better sometimes. You did back down a bit and it does have a better listenability. Virginia Slim is on the ball with his comments. presets are nice, but experiment with the tools by trying different settings. We all have the impulses to push the lever all the way up, but if you learn discretion and backing down on the Gain, you will see some amazing results. Trust me mate. I like what I hear, it just needs some fine-tuning, but you are9 on the right track.
Cru
Hey man, thank you so much for returning and for explaining things further, it is both helpful and appreciated! I feel like the brick problem is coming from the mastering part of the equation because the file I bounced out of Garageband isn't slammed, there is no visible clipping at all on the wav file. I have limited knowledge of mastering (obviously) so am using presets in T-Racks 5 which usually make things sound better overall but I need to learn how to go beyond the presets. I'm not there yet though. I did take one more stab at trying to lower the overall volume and "brick" problem and have uploaded another revision. Hopefully this one is even a little more "listenable". :) Anyway, I know I still have tons to learn which is both exciting and daunting at the same time. I really do appreciate your time and advise, so thank you!!!!
Reminds me of Chemical Bros. If brickwalling is an issue(sounds like it might be), you can test by turning up the volume on your monitoring system. If it gets more fatiguing at higher or moderate volumes it might be too slammed. If clarity drops off at higher volumes it might be over-crushed. You can always sidechain to regain clarity if you want a slammed sound but lack some articulation or dynamics across volumes(NY bus compression)
Good cinematic feel to the production and arrangements. Lots of good things here.
Thank you so much for taking the time to comment, i appreciate it! Is sidechaining the same thing as parallel compression? If so, since I am in Garageband there isn't a parallel compression stock but I do have the I Heart NY plug in which I think mimics parallel compression. Anyway, I think my original posted track was indeed "slammed" and I have taken a few steps to lessen that effect, hopefully this version doesn't seem too loud or clipped etc. Thanks again for the feedback!!!
Thank you so much for your comment. So, I'm still sort of a newb at mixing and mastering etc. When you say "bricked compression dynamics", do you mean it's clipped and or too loud?
I have replaced the original track here with a slightly more "gentle" approach. Not sure if you can tell if this is any better or not?
Anyway, thanks again for taking the time to listen and comment, much appreciated!
Very interesting track. Nice.
I really like the "pop-iness" of it.
It's fresh and light.
(I know what I mean by that but I can't explain it. lol Sorry!)
The vocal/voice you used...nice choice!!
Very interesting choices of everything you used here,
everything works well together.
on Do You Like Music by toddlove
on Do You Like Music by toddlove
on X Mi Ft Ashesndreams by toddlove
on X Mi Ft Ashesndreams by toddlove
That's what I hear but what do you think?
Compression on individual tracks or if you group them/send to aux buss will affect how it sounds when adjusting the master compression as well. Finding that balance is what makes this so hard. I think you are doing great!
Wayne
on X Mi Ft Ashesndreams by toddlove
I have learned that if you watch the volume meter on the last device in your processing chain on your master channel, it can help you get clearer mixes and more depth. Most volume meters will show two things, 1) a peak level, in Ableton it is a lighter green and 2) average peak level which is the darker green part showing volume output. If you try to keep the peak level spiking at -1.50dB and the average level between -12 and -8dB then you not only get clear mixes but it also translates the best across different platforms like spotify, apple music, looperman.... when you upload them.
The bass usually dictates, in my songs, the average level. If i can get a clear bass sound between -12 and -8db, and i can fit the drums, gits and vocals neatly in there without going over those limits i set, then i have found that my mixes sound the best, clearest and loud. Now i am not the greatest mixer but i am improving over the years and have seen the same thing over and over, look at the waveform, it tells you a lot about what is happening in the mix.
Hope this helps, it's very complicated to describe in a few sentences.
Wayne
Ok, so I have gone back to the drawing board a little on this. I backed off some of the compression in both the mix and the master. I also did a little automation with the faders on the bass and one of the guitars. I know the original version I posted, the waveform was indeed blocky and now I see that the new version isn't nearly as much. I'm wondering if you gave this a listen again would you hear a difference at all. Maybe I didn't go far enough or went too far, I don't know. I have so much still to learn it feels overwhelming. :)
Thank you again for helping me out!!!
on X Mi Ft Ashesndreams by toddlove
on X Mi Ft Ashesndreams by toddlove
Regards,
Michael
on X Mi Ft Ashesndreams by toddlove
on X Mi Ft Ashesndreams by toddlove
But to say even more about me, I doubt anything she's actually saying would be as interesting as peanut butter.
Dope track tho.
on X Mi Ft Ashesndreams by toddlove
Wayne
on X Mi Ft Ashesndreams by toddlove
on X Mi Ft Ashesndreams by toddlove
on X Mi Ft Ashesndreams by toddlove
on Fun Strummer by toddlove
on Fun Strummer by toddlove
on Vibrations by toddlove
on Fun Strummer by toddlove
on Vibrations by toddlove
Cru
on Vibrations by toddlove
Good cinematic feel to the production and arrangements. Lots of good things here.
on Vibrations by toddlove
Cru
I have replaced the original track here with a slightly more "gentle" approach. Not sure if you can tell if this is any better or not?
Anyway, thanks again for taking the time to listen and comment, much appreciated!
on Vibrations by toddlove
on Fun Strummer by toddlove
on Fun Strummer by toddlove
on Fun Strummer by toddlove
on Fun Strummer by toddlove
I really like the "pop-iness" of it.
It's fresh and light.
(I know what I mean by that but I can't explain it. lol Sorry!)
The vocal/voice you used...nice choice!!
Very interesting choices of everything you used here,
everything works well together.