Yeah mastering tracks are not easy and you need patience. Don't know how it sounded before but it sounds good right now did they charge you by the way? Nice use of vocals on point with this genre. Don't know about this to much very electronic
Yes, I guess I ran out of patience. Actually, the problems with the track were rooted in the mix itself. I didn't even get to the mastering stage with it. Sounded harsh and vocals were competing with the synths and strings. Wytse fixed the problems somehow. I actually don't know exactly what he did, but he does have a lot of real analog gear in his studio. And yes, of course he's a pro and quite in demand. Was worth the investment. Not something I'll probably ever do again, but was necessary for this track.
Cloudbusting like in some respects - but oh to be referencing that - and further it but really stands on its own - deep rich sounds take us on beautiful journey, mix is superb, vox sublime - Fantastic collaboration, great track.
Yes. Quite right. Only in some respects. Basically, the first section (after the cathedral choir thing).
Deep rich sounds were, in varying degrees and in different parts of the track, a combination of synth bass, acoustic bass, brass, and vocals.
But, the challenge was getting a rich sound throughout because so much middle high and high frequency material was competing for space in the mix. That was the challenge that Wytse finally solved, when I could not.
Thanks for the positive comment on the track. Very nice to hear that you liked it.
Regards, from Ottawa where it was -18 celsius this morning. I'm sure it was much, much better in Hawaii! :)
fantastic work congratulations all involved. the intro is stunning a beautiful builder. straight in to industrial vibes and then wow what a vocal. then we get melodic vibes. great synths and delicate little hits. 3.17 its all change mood again, tear at your heart strings, as in the song change is a good thing and you stage the drop well on 5.00 and i just loved the play out as professional sounding as professional sounding can be, top job.
I did think that Salve's vocal really made this track something special. I guess that's why I took so long trying to get the "sound" to live up to Salve's vocal.
Many years ago, long before LM, I was in a kind of chat group with musicians from across the world. I admitted to another participant, an accomplished professional French composer named, Philipe Chatillez ("le chat") that I had composed lots of fragments of tracks, but never really completed a full track. He said I should not be afraid of just combining different pieces to create a whole.
I guess that's what Salve and I did with this track except that we actually planned it this way - as a musical progression.
So, probably 30 years after getting the advice, I finally put it into action! Slow learner! :)
hey Eric, what a collab! its a good balance between epic and intimate, the instrumentation and production are top notch. the first synthpop section is my fav has kinda a kate bush thing that morphs into a titanic starship thing. massive track, your efforts show.
Hi, Xstokes! Thank you for the kind words on this track. You get the prize for recognizing the inspiration for that first section of the track. It was definitely Kate Bush. Actually Cloudbusting. I found a patch in one of my VSTs that really reminded me of that track, and just started from that to build the instrumental backing. And, to my credit, this was well before the world rediscovered Kate Bush because Stranger Things had used one of her tracks. She has always been one of my favourite artists, and remains so.
Hello Eric. Thank you for your detailed reply to my previous message! Unfortunately, it doesn't happen that often here that someone takes the time to answer in such detail. But I'm afraid I made a mistake on one point (sorry, but English is not my native language). There aren't too many effects on the vocals. No, the effects used here fit this song very well. I basically meant that I would like to hear this voice without effects! (this should be understood as an expression of my admiration for the singer). I hope that I have made myself clearer now? Kind regards again Manuela
Hi, Manuela. Actually, I did not interpret your comment on the vocals effects as a critique, although I really like to get constructive critiques of my tracks. It really helps me improve, and luckily I often get quite helpful comments from LM members. It's good to know what is done right and works well, and what doesn't.
I agree that hearing more of Salve's vocals would be nice. I recall that earlier last year Salve posted on the LM forum (I really do miss the forum) seeking collaborations. I believe there were no responses, which is unfortunate.
If you are interested in hearing another vocal by Salve, you can stream the song, "How You Been" which is available on Apple Music. Probably on Spotify as well. The beat was purchased, so is not original. Salve wrote the lyrics and recorded the vocal. I worked with Salve on the production/mixing.
Eric, It seems you have a blended indie pop, cinematic and industrial vibe to create something that is hard to describe. I can see this being on a cinematic trailer of sorts or even teh intro to a show.
The voice is greatly mixed in and all sounds seem to blend together well, which im sure balancing was no easy task given the unorthodox sounds you used. bravo overall z
Thanks for comment, Zion. I think you are right about the mix of genres. It definitely does not fit comfortably into just one box. I'm very happy with the way the mix turned out. The instrumental parts, particularly in one section, have sounds that are in the same frequency range as the vocal. Not only were they competing for "space" in the mix, but the overall sound was somewhat harsh. Simple EQing did not fix the problem. So, I turned to a pro for help. Wytse really improved the mix. Took it to a place I was not able to reach. :)
Hello Eric. With this voice as a basis, you can only make good songs! I have rarely heard such a great voice! The mix is also very balanced. The instruments are excellently selected and placed. The basic rhythm and the varied design of the song span an excellent spectrum. Even though the song is so long, it's not boring at all. Certainly, the ending could have been designed a little differently than you did with the fadeout. Perhaps a dramatic final chord befitting this wonderful epic voice would be better here. But that is of course a matter of taste. I would also like to be able to listen to this voice without any effects. But this song is definitely one of the standouts here at LM and is definitely worth a favorite for me. Best regards Manuela
Oh, Manuela! I completely agree with your comments on Salve's vocals. Salve is a unique voice. I think I'm not bad at coming up with melody lines, but Salve has a much more sophisticated sense of melody. I was very lucky that Salve agreed to collaborate on this track with me.
And yes, I think the mix turned out really well. Wytse definitely rescued it. This track was actually 2 years in the making, mostly because I simply could not get the mix to sound right. Having the tools is one thing. Having the skills to use them properly is entirely another matter.
I supposed the ending could have been different. It is actually the only place where the lyrics provide the title to the song. I thought the fade-out of the repeated line, 'Bid me Go" somehow made sense both logically and musically. But, I admit, I do tend to use fade-outs a lot because making proper endings is really hard! :)
And finally, other than some EQ and reverb (automated in places) Salve's vocal doesn't really have a lot of processing on it. Salve is a student and has a very inexpensive USB microphone. Records vocals at night when everybody else in the family is asleep so the won't be bothered. There is some distortion at places in the vocals, but that is inherent in the original recordings.
I like the vocal nuances of this track. They give it atmosphere. It sounds like you did good with the rolling bass. You can add an arpeggiator to one bar of your bass and it will sound "rolling" automatically. Then, side chain that bass to your kick drum. Sounds like you nailed it good here though anyway. The above is just a quick way to do it for any future tracks.
I'm glad I decided to check out your music. Surprised I hadn't heard this before today. This is absolutely wonderful. Really takes me back to the early 2010s. So Nostalgic. I'm going to listen to this the next time I'm cycling off into the sunset. Such a golden, majestic quality about this track. Amazing
Thanks for the comment AF. Very sorry about the delay in responding to you. I was off Looperman for some time and didn't realize you had commented on my track.
Hi, Eric! Nice track. I like it a lot. Maybe you can sidechain the pads and some other sounds you have there and even the vocals a little bit so that the kick shine even more through the mix. But anyway you did a nice job. Keep it up.
Hi, Fidiu! Thanks for the feedback and suggestions. I'm definitely getting the message that I really should work up my courage and try side-chaining elements of the track to the kicks. I used a work-around to avoid doing that with the bass line, but hadn't even thought of doing it to pads, etc. I think that's definitely something I should experiment with. I guess it would give the track the "pumping" sound?
I'm not at all familiar with "Logic Pro" but, in Ableton you could just make one measure of what ever you wanted to repeat "Quantize" it, highlight the measure then just hold CTRL and hit D (duplicate) over and over till you have as many measures of the phrase as you want. Sidechain it to your Drum in a compressor and Bob's your uncle :-). I really like the power and drive in this track. I was really curious to see what was going to happen when your waveform takes a dive @ 2:14. It turned out to be an Epic change.
Hi, Jynxz. Pretty much the same method in Logic Pro. I think I actually did about 4 bars of the bass and then duplicated it. Didn't attempt the side chain to the kick because I eliminated the bass notes when they coincided with the kicks. But, I know that, probably the preferable solution, is to use the side chain method so that some of the bass note is present in the track on each beat. I also didn't attempt to tune the pitch of the kicks to the key of the track. That's also something I know I should be doing, but frankly have never done. Laziness. Just pure laziness. :)
I totally understand how frustrating it is. I prefer not to use ready-made basslines and loops and try to do as much as possible myself. The first and last bassline I made by stretching a bass in different lengths and using the pitch. I sometimes try it with a synth by making a tone very dark. With youtube I always have the problem that they speak english which is not my strong point and they explain everything so quickly. Must be my age that I don't pick it up that quickly lol How you tried it is actually algebra to me. I'm completely free of the rules of music hahaha. I do and try what comes to mind and if it sounds good then I'm happy . That's why I often refer to my tracks as the Rita bounce genre lol. I've just been into music for 3 years. You can tell from your track that you have much more experience. In any case, I think your bassline turned out well. But we ourselves think it can always be better, right? Greetings Rita
Being "free of the rules of music" isn't necessarily a bad way to be. I read somewhere that Stevie Nicks was advised not to learn about music formally because it might ruin her innate ability to create great songs. Her talent is instinctive. Not sure if that's really the right way to express it, but I think you will understand the meaning.
Most of the time, I have no idea what chords I'm really playing when I'm working up a sequence. And, apparently in one of my older tracks posted here, I did a key change in the track, but was quite unaware that I'd done it. One of the more accomplished musicians here on Looperman commented on it! I was quite surprised. :)
nice work on this exersize, i have no complaints about it and think you did a nice job with the drums and baseline and made the best out of it. keep working at it and maybe experiment with adding your own melodies instead of loops to take it to the next level
i laughed reading the comments when you said you should try some weed to help loosen the track up a bit. i agree with your theory
Thanks, hobertni. Using all those vocal loops was actually a departure for me. I usually play all the melody lines myself on my keyboard. I tend to use midi drum loops a lot, instead of programming my own drums. That's always puzzled me because I actually played drums in rock bands (not professionally) years ago. But, I suck at programming good drum tracks from scratch.
So yes, I agree with you, using my own melodies would be a good idea. I'll definitely get back to doing that with future tracks.
I spend a LOT of time going through all the vocal samples/loops that came with Logic Pro to find ones that I could use with the track as it was developing. I'm generally not very good working with loops, other. than midi loops. Rolling bass lines seem like they should be simple enough to make, but I really had trouble getting it so it sounded half decent. I still don't know why. Watched a bunch of YouTube videos on how to do it. I thought I should be using side chain compression to "duck" 16th bass notes that coincide with kick drum hits on the first beat of each bar, but that didn't work for me at all. Ended up doing all 16th, and then erasing the midi notes for the first one at each beat in the bar. But then had to adjust the velocity of the remaining three notes to get the right feel. Plus applying a LFO filter preset to get it more locked in sync. I assume that, with practice, it would become a lot easier to accomplish! :)
Hi, dubjoka! Thanks for the comment. Yes, I managed to find pads that were really creamy. Only slight tweaks from the presets. Much more effort on the bass and drum parts. First part of the track has only one bass instrument but I layered four of them for the break section including two Moogs. I know that's not supposed to be good practice, but I think that if you use EQ to focus each instrument on the timbre that is unique to it, the whole sound can work really well. I'm not proficient enough to be able to program the sounds I want from scratch, so layering instruments is a method I use quite a bit.
Thanks for the encouragement, pseudoble! I think I finally have come close to figuring out how to do a proper rolling bass line. Now, just need to get more creative on all the other elements! :)
Thanks for the feedback, Michael. I think the mix was pretty good, actually. Now, I just need to work harder on getting more inventive tracks. I'm working on one now with another LM member that is going to be, I think, quite unique. Not EDM. I really want to be able to make good EDM tracks. I think I need to spend more time listening to what's being put out by the pros. I really like Bob Moses, but there's a lot more out there worth my attention I think.
hello Eric! i think you from an organizational and production perspective this is a nice and flowing piece. my complaint is that it sounds like an exercise, just as you alluded to it in the description. id love to hear you loosen the genre conventions and jam then that rolling psytrance bass could be put to a better test. good to see you man!
This is a valid critique of the track, x stokes, and I really appreciate your input. Its, frankly, a lot more helpful to get constructive criticism than comments that just say, great track, man or words to that effect.
Your observation is aiming at an issue that much more fundamental than mere technical issues with the mix, etc. its something that Ive been increasingly aware of, and frustrated with in my music for some time now. Not very inventive.
Im not sure how to remedy this. I hope its not because Im just too old to be creative.:(
Commented on Bid Me Go - Feat Salve Clements by EricMilligan
I really like the style of this track, The synths and bass give me a kind of mysterious feeling that i can appreciate.
well done!
Commented on Bid Me Go - Feat Salve Clements by EricMilligan
This is a very nice sounding track.
Commented on Bid Me Go - Feat Salve Clements by EricMilligan
This is a vibe!
Commented on Bid Me Go - Feat Salve Clements by EricMilligan
Yeah mastering tracks are not easy and you need patience. Don't know how it sounded before but it sounds good right now did they charge you by the way? Nice use of vocals on point with this genre. Don't know about this to much very electronic
Commented on Bid Me Go - Feat Salve Clements by EricMilligan
great composition! you carry on with a few different moods throughout this one and it is enjoyable to listen to. sounds great too
nice work,
hobewan
Commented on Bid Me Go - Feat Salve Clements by EricMilligan
Cloudbusting like in some respects - but oh to be referencing that - and further it but really stands on its own - deep rich sounds take us on beautiful journey, mix is superb, vox sublime - Fantastic collaboration, great track.
Commented on Bid Me Go - Feat Salve Clements by EricMilligan
fantastic work congratulations all involved. the intro is stunning a beautiful builder. straight in to industrial vibes and then wow what a vocal. then we get melodic vibes. great synths and delicate little hits. 3.17 its all change mood again, tear at your heart strings, as in the song change is a good thing and you stage the drop well on 5.00 and i just loved the play out as professional sounding as professional sounding can be, top job.
Commented on Bid Me Go - Feat Salve Clements by EricMilligan
hey Eric, what a collab! its a good balance between epic and intimate, the instrumentation and production are top notch. the first synthpop section is my fav has kinda a kate bush thing that morphs into a titanic starship thing. massive track, your efforts show.
Commented on Bid Me Go - Feat Salve Clements by EricMilligan
Hello Eric. Thank you for your detailed reply to my previous message! Unfortunately, it doesn't happen that often here that someone takes the time to answer in such detail.
But I'm afraid I made a mistake on one point (sorry, but English is not my native language).
There aren't too many effects on the vocals. No, the effects used here fit this song very well.
I basically meant that I would like to hear this voice without effects! (this should be understood as an expression of my admiration for the singer).
I hope that I have made myself clearer now?
Kind regards again
Manuela
Commented on Bid Me Go - Feat Salve Clements by EricMilligan
This is incredible.
Eric, It seems you have a blended indie pop, cinematic and industrial vibe to create something that is hard to describe.
I can see this being on a cinematic trailer of sorts or even teh intro to a show.
The voice is greatly mixed in and all sounds seem to blend together well, which im sure balancing was no easy task given the unorthodox sounds you used.
bravo overall
z
Commented on Bid Me Go - Feat Salve Clements by EricMilligan
It sounds very good to me)
Commented on Bid Me Go - Feat Salve Clements by EricMilligan
Hello Eric. With this voice as a basis, you can only make good songs! I have rarely heard such a great voice! The mix is also very balanced. The instruments are excellently selected and placed. The basic rhythm and the varied design of the song span an excellent spectrum. Even though the song is so long, it's not boring at all. Certainly, the ending could have been designed a little differently than you did with the fadeout. Perhaps a dramatic final chord befitting this wonderful epic voice would be better here. But that is of course a matter of taste. I would also like to be able to listen to this voice without any effects. But this song is definitely one of the standouts here at LM and is definitely worth a favorite for me.
Best regards Manuela
Commented on I Cant Lose by EricMilligan
I like the vocal nuances of this track. They give it atmosphere. It sounds like you did good with the rolling bass. You can add an arpeggiator to one bar of your bass and it will sound "rolling" automatically. Then, side chain that bass to your kick drum. Sounds like you nailed it good here though anyway. The above is just a quick way to do it for any future tracks.
Commented on Falcon Trance 8 by EricMilligan
I'm glad I decided to check out your music. Surprised I hadn't heard this before today. This is absolutely wonderful. Really takes me back to the early 2010s. So Nostalgic. I'm going to listen to this the next time I'm cycling off into the sunset. Such a golden, majestic quality about this track. Amazing
Commented on I Cant Lose by EricMilligan
Hi, Eric! Nice track. I like it a lot. Maybe you can sidechain the pads and some other sounds you have there and even the vocals a little bit so that the kick shine even more through the mix. But anyway you did a nice job. Keep it up.
Commented on I Cant Lose by EricMilligan
Hello Eric,
I'm not at all familiar with "Logic Pro" but,
in Ableton you could just make one measure of
what ever you wanted to repeat "Quantize" it, highlight
the measure then just hold CTRL and hit D (duplicate) over
and over till you have as many measures of the phrase as you
want. Sidechain it to your Drum in a compressor and Bob's your
uncle :-).
I really like the power and drive in this track. I was really
curious to see what was going to happen when your waveform takes a dive @ 2:14. It turned out to be an Epic change.
Great track. Faved..PEACE from the SouthEast...
Commented on I Cant Lose by EricMilligan
I totally understand how frustrating it is.
I prefer not to use ready-made basslines and loops and try to do as much as possible myself.
The first and last bassline I made by stretching a bass in different lengths and using the pitch.
I sometimes try it with a synth by making a tone very dark.
With youtube I always have the problem that they speak english which is not my strong point and they explain everything so quickly.
Must be my age that I don't pick it up that quickly lol
How you tried it is actually algebra to me.
I'm completely free of the rules of music hahaha.
I do and try what comes to mind and if it sounds good then I'm happy .
That's why I often refer to my tracks as the Rita bounce genre lol.
I've just been into music for 3 years.
You can tell from your track that you have much more experience.
In any case, I think your bassline turned out well.
But we ourselves think it can always be better, right?
Greetings Rita
Commented on I Cant Lose by EricMilligan
nice work on this exersize, i have no complaints about it and think you did a nice job with the drums and baseline and made the best out of it. keep working at it and maybe experiment with adding your own melodies instead of loops to take it to the next level
i laughed reading the comments when you said you should try some weed to help loosen the track up a bit. i agree with your theory
Commented on I Cant Lose by EricMilligan
Really nice track eric! Love the pad work on this creation and the quality is perfect!
Commented on I Cant Lose by EricMilligan
I like it.
I also like the vocals in it.
How to make a rolling bassline? I still dont know lol.
But we keep practicing right?
Just go on like this.
Commented on I Cant Lose by EricMilligan
hey bro love the smooth pads and vocal work here great track mate
Commented on I Cant Lose by EricMilligan
Nice depth and space in the mix with classic dance pulse - love the synth work too : )
Commented on I Cant Lose by EricMilligan
very good track , very good sound and mix , very very good job Eric !
Michael
Commented on I Cant Lose by EricMilligan
hello Eric! i think you from an organizational and production perspective this is a nice and flowing piece. my complaint is that it sounds like an exercise, just as you alluded to it in the description. id love to hear you loosen the genre conventions and jam then that rolling psytrance bass could be put to a better test. good to see you man!
Commented on I Cant Lose by EricMilligan
Nice work Eric!