General Songwriting Tips

Hi all, my name is Brady, and I make music (nothing shocking, I know)

I was wondering, could any of you give me any songwriting tips? Other than do it frequently, of course (I'm on the 10,000 hour rule right now).

Also, for general info, I write R&B stuff, contemporaries are:
The Weeknd
Bryson Tiller
Giveon
and Black Atlass

Read THE CRAFT OF LYRIC WRITING by Sheila Davis.

Hi,

My advice would be to write (lyrics and lead melody) outside your comfort zone for practice, because while current artists can be used for inspiration, you won't truly know your own unique talents until you find your own "voice."

To write lyrics well, you'll need to study other songwriters. This field is a process so don't get discouraged. Reading (non-fiction as well as fiction) can also help with a turn of phrase. To be a good wordsmith, your words don't always have to rhyme.

Above all be true to yourself. If your heart is in R&B that's fine. But R&B can have elements of Trap, POP or EDM. Write enough so that you have enough lyrics to pull from if you're asked to do a quick edit. There's nothing wrong with having files of songs or notebooks full of lyrics.

As for myself, the rule I use is that my lyrics/lead vocals have to be as strong as the music paired with it. Sometimes the lyrics come prior to vocals, and are edited a lot until I'm satisfied.

I wish you all the best.

I guy on here once said.. "hone your craft hone humanity".

that always stuck with me.

Truly you have to write, like every day consistently.
About anything, about everything, about nothing.
Just write don't worry about songs just write stuff daily
it will come.

Also I like this book Soundwriting without Boundaries - Pat Pattison.

There are no rules.

Make music that excites you.

There are many rules of music. Learn them all. Once you have mastered them, then and only then you can break them all. I (Merci, Dr. Linda Ardito: for teaching me that axiom back in 1990 in college.) learned this valuble lesson from a composer of serious music (Atonal) who was the wisest person musically I have ever encountered.

Sorry Steve, can't agree with you there. There are no rules to songwriting, that's what he was asking about. There are, however, rules to music and to how music works which is what I think you were referring to.

There are no rules as to how many verses, chorus, changes or even how many chords or notes there has to be while writing a song. One note can drone for 3 minutes and it could be considered a song as much as a beautifully written classical piece with complex arrangements. A song can just have a vocal track, sung, spoken or grunted. Any instrument can be put in any song. No rules needed at all for that.

I write songs with basically no arrangements half the time. I sit and play the guitar for 3 or 4 minutes making up changes as I go in a set chordal pattern. That's the musical part, rules to follow there. But once I've played that, I can now put 6 verses in a row and call it a song or take one verse and 3 chorus parts and make that a song. No rules apply as to how I can structure that song or produce it. None.

Rules only constrict and limit you when songwriting.

The best advice I can give you, is listen to music outside of your comfort zone. More than likely youll find key phrases or styles that you can emulate rather easily if you practice enough.

uhhh...I'm not sure Wayne, though I do get your point of view, because I'm the same, I don't write I just hit record and do what I feel. And most times that's all I feel like doing. And it works. I'm really not a serious anything, so it works for me. But when it comes to actually creating something of value that can not only be enjoyed but shared and re-created and dare I say may generate some type of income... that does take skill. Period.

I'm totally with Crucethus, you've got to learn the rules.
And really what doesn't have some type of rules (structure) for getting it done.. there's rules about crossing the street, baking a cake...hey even which way the tp goes on the roll.. :P

Like MurdocDKG us dinosaurs need to get out of our comfort zone... and that's all I have to say about that.

Start with the hook and hook melody and write outwards.
-That's all I got!
:D

Hey AJ! Long time no see, hope you are well these days.

If you or Steve want to post the rules of songwriting here or a link where I could find them then I will read them and with an open mind assess for myself if they are legitimate.

Songwriting is an art and there are no rules in creating art in any medium. Hell, Andy Warhol painted a pic of a soup can and honestly it's just a still life of a can of soup. It's worth millions now. Why? Because he didn't follow "the rules". Starry Night by Van Gough, was he following any rules set out for all to follow?

Music is the medium, songwriting is the creative release and an art form. Clay is the medium and how you throw the pots is a creative release and an art form. Paint is a medium but creating a painting is a creative release and an art form.

Rules only limit and restrict someone at their art. You can believe what you want but telling artists they have to follow rules to inhibit their creativity to me is just bonkers.

It's sort of like cooking, let's say making a meatloaf. we know the ingredients will be beef, spices, an egg, and tomato. now you could throw all the ingredients together in a bowl and say, ahh it's done its a meatloaf. But to make a good meatloaf, you need to mix it properly, bake it, mold it in the proper shape, coat it with a tomato-like sauce. You follow a recipe. The rules of cooking. but after you have learned why those rules work and why it makes a tasty meatloaf, maybe then you start to experiment. maybe you learn to make a meatloaf foam. maybe you top it with foie gras. but just throwing ingredients together without understanding how it works means you may get lucky or you may get an unedible pile of crap. same rules apply to music.
And here is where you should start.
https://www.musical-u.com/learn/how-to-use-circle-fifths/
I started out learning by doing and playing on the keyboards and I made ok music sometimes. but after I learned Music theory and I understand the how and why and studied under someone who broke those rules (Atonality) but could explain to me why I became much much better.
So in a semantic sense, yes there are no rules and you can do what you want. but if you really want to know why something works the way it does, learn the rules or maybe Established Guidelines is a better term.
Peace

And all I'm saying is that I don't have to follow your recipe to create meatloaf. I can choose to use ground pork and chicken instead of hamburg or add habanero peppers and season it up like I want to to serve my tastebuds. I was served meatloaf one time and 3 hardboiled eggs were buried down in the middle of the meat. Some people put brown gravy on it and others don't.

So which meatloaf are you referring to, one you envision or one that I do? See, that's what I'm talking about. AJ mentioned making a popular song and following rules. What if i don't want my song to be popular, what if I don't want my meatloaf to taste like your meatloaf?

The circle of fifths, never used it once in writing a song and yes I understand it, yawn. Never once was it brought up in any band I ever played in or chorus I sang in or when I was writing a song with someone else.

Now if I want to write a bluegrass song and I break out a Les Paul then maybe I've gone awry in my intentions but it's still possible to mix rock with bluegrass, right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03RPSDYXjmg

Ok, Yeah I counter with
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4Ao-iNPPUc
So What: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XoyDqFy5pU
Every form of art has a system you have to learn. Anarchy does not wane true in art. So take all those meatloaf ingredients and then dont cook it. See what your guest will say unless that's what you're going for ehh, because cooking is a system! Hey, I get your Punk Ethos. But the reality Punk has a structure, rock and roll has a structure and very minimalist) as well (1,4,5 chord structures. All music has some sort of structure except John Cages song:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gN2zcLBr_VM
The highlight of Baby Boomer Bourgeois bull shit in the classical world. Gen-X tried to erase that thought with its, all rules are bull shit and anything goes, but the reality is there is always a structure, because the human ear wants the familiar, and the human soul wants a rhythm it can cling too, hence folk music is always about danceable rhythm. Serious music, or (classical) pushes the boundaries for us. But there is always a system behind the sound and there will always be one.
cheers
Steven

I never said music doesn't have structure or rules, the art form itself has the rules, not the creative side of it and songwriting is the creative side of using music.

We obviously don't agree but it's certainly nice to have a decent civil discussion in the forums for a change rather than just see another want ad.

btw, you looking for a producer or a collective to join? Maybe want to master my song? lol