Posted in : Forum : Sampling And Loop Making Chat
Discuss anything regarding sampling and loop making. How to make a loop, where did a sample come from, copyright issues, whats legal and whats not
I do not want to get banned and I also would like to talk about one of the rules for uploading loops.
I uploaded a loop called Emotional-Deep-Piano and someone commented saying that this was a sample from someone else on here and i responded with yes it was two samples that I chopped up.
I went back and re read the rules to make sure I didn't just break them, but i did because it says were not aloud to chop up samples.
I would really like this to be changed because the loops I used were from here, so they are royalty free. People are downloading this loop, so this means it is useable. I understand the whole idea of it being your own work but I am not keeping the same melodies that are being played. Nowadays a lot of people pencil in their notes without playing it on a keyboard/any instrument. I am just using the sounds and tones and then creating patterns that sound good to me, just like you would with any instrument.
I know a lot of you do not like the rap/hiphop producers on here but please understand where I am coming from. I still feel like this is a 100% my own work because I am not keeping the same melodies. I am just using the sounds. I am asking to not be banned and to have this rule be changed.
I completely disagree with you. Taking ones loop and cutting it up and uploading it as your own is not ok under any stretch of imagination.
Can't imagine why some 'producers' get a bad name....
Just to let everyone know my loops get just as many downloads without sampling. It is not the only thing I do.
@Mahloo13 Can you explain to me why? I dont see the big problem. When people chop up my loops I think its interesting to hear what they have done. Some people get really creative when chopping up loops. We allow people to use our loops without changing the melodies at all, add some drums, and then allow them to call it their beat. How is this worse than that?
I am really confused on why this is so frowned upon.
You already answered your own question: "I went back and re read the rules to make sure I didn't just break them, but i did..."
The owner of this site (Shan) sets the rules. You ether follow them or get banned. There's an honor system on Looperman, that what you upload is your work in the loops section. Not copyrighted samples from a known artist or tunes previously released, no matter the country of origin (though creations inspired by an artist, as long as the melodies aren't carbon copies usually are accepted).
I'm not saying that's what you stated you had done. I get that. I'm re-iterating this for any newbies reading this thread.
There's also credibility at work here, which you risk losing by simply taking the work of another looper and changing it as you see fit, and then uploading as your own creation. Ask yourself this, if another looper or the creator recognized the loop, then just how much originality, or infusing of your own talent did you put in it?
Changing the key, taking out or adding notes still doesn't change the fact that the loop was created by someone else and not you. Also, please don't use the excuse that because it was downloaded then "this means it is useable." I could write a thesis on why people download free stuff off the internet, but in this case you appear to use that as some sort of justification. Just, please, please don't.
Your talent may be your ear, and how you arrange tunes. If so, then why not upload a track with the loops you've used? That way you can give credit to the original source, and still showcase your skill.
But based on what you've stated, it seems the equipment is doing the work, and your real talent is yet to be shown. Still, I wish you all the best as this has becoming a talking point for many newbies to the music industry, and not just on Looperman.
Please understand that if your ultimate goal is to make a name for yourself in the music industry and not just accumulate likes or downloads on sites, then you will have to produce/create your own original sounds. Also, you wouldn't want something like this to come back to bite you, if you do have some sort of success. Again, I do wish you all the best.
Sorry, I didn't see your new post before I posted by original response.
You stated: "Just to let everyone know my loops get just as many downloads without sampling. It is not the only thing I do."
Okay, good to know you do have your own creations.
@wikkid I get your point with the downloads but someone did make a beat with it.
Equipment did not do most of the work because I manually slice, Manually fade in and fade out each sliced section to get rid of the pops and manually pencil in where i want the notes, adjust the pitch, and then mix the whole project. It takes me about an hour to an hour and a half to make these kind of loops. I do it because I personally think it is fun.
My goal is to just create loops that sound good. I don't care if people think im talented or not but I do care if they like the loop and are able to use my loops. I do not mind shouting out the people whos loops I used in the description if thats what people want me to do, but if (Shan) still wants me to take it down then I will take it down and not upload anymore loops where I chop up the peoples loops off of here.
(Shan) If you want me to still take it down can you personally tell me that. If not I will shout out the people whos loops I used in the description.
Also thank you for your response @wikkid
I kept writing and deleting and whatever, just do whatever you think is right man.
Alright bro. Thanks for responding.
Thanks for responding. I'm posting the link below not just for you, but for any newbies who may be interested in this info:
The terms of service for loops - https://www.looperman.com/help/terms
A few important quotes from that page: REPRESENTATIONS AND WARRANTIES
You represent and warrant that: (a) the content is your own original work
UPLOADING MEDIA TO LOOPS AREA
You acknowledge and agree that any and all media uploaded to the loops section is 100% your own work and that you own the copyright to such works.
Notice the words original and your own work. In this case, you cannot claim that. Please know that I understand you point. This is something you enjoy doing and you feel you're good at it. But remember, the "idea" or original creation wasn't by you, so you can't claim its your own work, which you're doing when you upload an edited loop, all while knowing the terms of service on Looperman.
When you state that you don't care, you should, as this is part of learning some of the business end of music, whether you agree with it or not. Again, I do wish you all the best. The owner will probably respond at some point, which will clarify things to us all (I'm including myself, because the site owner's rules/explainations are the ones that truly count).
@Anotherproducer - I wasn't trying to get across as harsh or anything, just had to rush the reply. At the end of the day it comes down to common sense and our interpretation of common sense, and I believe it does finally come down to being and issue between you and the original loop creator for the most part. It's still his creation chopped up and rearranged. If it's cool with him/her it shouldn't be a problem.
Once again I'm sorry if my answer was perceived like harsh, arrogant or whatever you wanna call it, I'm in a recording session and don't really have time for detailed answers.
As a side note I'd like to see the thread going as it's an interesting topic that can easily branch out to cover multiple situations with loops.
@Mahloo13 Its all good bro. And I agree with it being an issue between the original creator and the person chopping the loop if the loop wasn't royalty free. I feel like since it is royalty free then I have permission to do with it as I please.
@wikkid I understand where you are coming from and this is how I feel. If somebody took my loop and chopped it up, I consider that loop that they make a 100% of their original work because thats not what I made. It has the same sounds but thats it. Either it doesn't sound as good as mine or it sounds better. Could they have made it without my loop... no, but you cant make any melody without sounds. I look at it like someone making a collage out of multiple art pieces. It then becomes a new piece that was created by that person. Does it get the same respect? Thats up to each individual.
I know that (Shan) believes that this is not considered original work, along with many other people and I am hoping that this changes because I dont feel the same way, but even with that being said, this is not my website.
at the end of the day, rules are rules man, there's a reason why it exist, it might cause future unnecessary conflict, the original creator might be fine with u flipping the sample and uploading it here as your own but some other creators might not like that, the rule was set prob to stop these types of figts to start, i still think its unfair in a way, because some people might not know that u sample another loop from here, and they might think u made it 100%. and the issue is that u still uploaded it on the same platform, it is technically not ur own work if someone recognizes the sample, it means that u didn't flip the sample enough to make it distinct and or something totally different compare to the original loop, its like the meme "hey let me copy ur homework" "yeah just change it up a bit so it doesn't look obvious u copied" what u did was took someones essay and change the words and claim it as ur own. and ik u said thats what trap producers do but thats why sites like these exist, it is to give producers loops to make into beats or tracks. its different for ur case because its like ur stealing someones homework and changing the words and claiming it as your own which is wrong, on the other hand trap producers taking loops to make beats is like a group project expect that the creator is willing to give it works out for free without expecting anything. at the end man u still broke the rules man, just follow em theres a reason why it exist, if u want changes theres a section for that in the forum go there and suggest it instead.
I don't actually use loops from Looperman however if I did, I'd feel a bit cheated if a whole host of loops were variants of other loops on here which would be all too possible if your proposal was to be accepted. There may be some users who would manipulate the loop so much that it became unrecognisable from the original but you can bet your life there will be loads of other people who would hardly change it, then upload it as their own. Who is going to determine if a loop has been changed significantly enough to be classed as a loop in it's own right? And what criteria would be used? Far easier just to ban it outright.
If I bought a loop pack and all the loops were variants of each other I'd feel cheated. I apply the same logic to Looperman loops.
By the way, these loops you created are not 100% your own work as you admit you base them from another so at least some small percentage at the very least is someone else's work no?
anotherproducer, When you buy a loopset from a publisher, it's okay to do whatever you want to those files and have 100% ownership.
@windycity - he's not talking about bought loops so that's not really relevant to the topic.
@clout This isn't school and this isn't a fight. It is a discussion to help understand each others perspective when it comes to this topic. When ford comes out with a car and then chevy comes out with a car that looks just like it or visa versa, they are able to put their logo on it. Same with any other business. It is not the same, just similar and people would rather have one than another. This post fits in multiple sections.
@Lemonization To me thats like saying if you make a guitar loop then thats not a hundred percent of your own work because you didn't build the guitar that gave you that sound or build those programs that give you those effects, but i do agree with the loop pack perspective. To prevent people clicking on these type of loops then we can just have them put chopped in the title or something to let people know so the ones who care about hearing the same thing multiple times don't have to risk that.
@windycity Same with royalty free products. If it was just free then thats different.
I know it would be easier to ban it but that doesn't mean it should still be done. It's easier to box yourself in than to think outside the box. There is a way to have it be done if everybody came together and help monetize the ones that weren't different enough so they could be taken down.
Once again with all this being said, it is not my website so I respect what ever decision will be made but Im not taking it down until then. I know the rule is already in force but Im still hoping that we have a compromise before I delete it forever. Not trying to cause problems even though it may seem that way, I am just trying to open a door that has been closed.
Im afraid anything that is not your own work needs to be removed.
I try and keep the rules as simple as possible and they wont change
Thank you for your response.
I still feel like this is a 100% my own work because I am not keeping the same melodies. I am just using the sounds. I am asking.
it is still sampling. atleast you have admitted your mistake. i think you can remove the sample yourself.
When you buy a loopset from a publisher, it's okay to do whatever you want to those files and have 100% ownership.
You are irrelevant.
better steal the shit out of other peoples creations and upload it as your own!!
And that's the thing: you're using the sound an other guy made, maybe for hours and hours, and stick your name on it with a different melody as a sample to be used. (?!)
If you'd upload that piece o' music as ... a piece of music into the track section, it would be no problem, I guess.
Well if you buy a loop pack then the composer/creator/artist is being compensated for the work he's done, but when you're talking about royalty free loops/samples that people took time and effort to make and put out for people to use for free out of the goodness of their heart, that's kinda a different story. They're not getting compensated for the work they did, mostly not even recognized, so I think it's pretty scummy to take advantage of that and post modified version/s of their loop as your own creation.
Just wanna let everybody know so that there is no concern when I post loops on here, that they will be original work and the ones I have up now, are original.
Thanks for everyone helping me see other perspectives.
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Looper Time : 2019-10-18 00:26:48 | Version l-3110