Question About Layering

hi. sorry i don't speak well english.

a while ago, i uploaded a loop :

this loop
https://www.looperman.com/loops/detail/123303/disaster-terrible-ambiance-by-abelouis-free-140bpm-ambient-synth-loop

but delete because sub bass layering with synth.
ok, I deleted sub.

But everyday, i hear loops with multiple layering,
voices, few instruments...i don't understant, please tell me.

In what way does it layer? How do you mix it and does it phase cancel?

Bonjour,Abelouis! Je parle un peu de franais.

Je ne comprend pas votre problme. Le sub bass annuler le synth? Annulation de frquence? (Je pense que c'est ce que Ravejob voulait dire par "annulation de phase").

Le son de votre loop, a t il "pump"?

C'est possible que le sons de sub-bass et du synth ont quelques frquences en commun. En ce cas, il faut que vous appliquer un EQ sur le sub bass ou sur le synth.

Un suggestion: Upload votre loop originale encore. Laissez-nous couter la loop originale.

Eric, I think it was something far more basic and simpler than what you said when you read the rest of what he says.

He also said: i hear loops with multiple layering, voices, few instruments...

One is left to conclude he simply layered the sub with the synth. As he has witnessed others layer voices and other instruments with their synth loops and it seems that they get away with it often from his perspective so he is confused on what the policy is and why it is enforced on some people but not others because then he says: i don't understand, please tell me. I said before the layering policy is quite vague here and not clear and left up to personal taste and interpretation of the Admin, and that's his right to do so. But there is very little fairness in that. Many people confuse layering as being a groove loop. Ambient, Pads, trap, saws based synths, and cinematic genres utilize lots of layering. In rock, if you plug your electric guitar into your traditional electric amp with nothing more you will get the DI sound. Run it through your rig, with its pedals, tones, distortion modules, reverb, wah-wah, compression, subharmonics, and hi and low pass filters and you can custom layer and sculp the output to your desire. When the synth is the instrument how come the same cannot be done. Some of highest downloaded synth loops here on this site are layered loops. So by current policy standards, those loops should be deleted too.

this is original sound with sub :
https://soundcloud.com/abelouis-stanislas/theme-faites-entrer-laccuse

From what i understand and my interpretation of his question he only asks how things are layered generally.

Because when you end up with synth sounds with a broad frequency range it would interfere with almost anything. So lets say thats a "sub" in this case. Most people use basic leveling of sound to balance out the bass from hi freq sounds. Since your synth has freq that go somewhere below 200 hz its probably gonna interfere.

Other than leveling you have something called "ducking" witch is the same as leveling, but it lowers the sound on the spot where 2 things interfere with each other. Since you have a constant bass layered on your synth its not a good idea.

So just leveling the sound would fix the problem or cutting out the low end of your synth. Or you could use an EQ to balance it out the same way.

You also might find your answer here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RK774kELZvs

Hes the best at what he does and i recommend watching his videos.

Occasionally you might see Joe and I have disparate opinions on a particular topic which is a good thing actually as everyone has their own interpretations, however I don't think you'll find anyone on this site who has a better grasp of music, it's forms of production, content or place than Joe does, I concur with his summation of layering within a loop, I have quite a few synthesizers which use vector synthesis as their main audio engine which in the short story comprises the construction of layered pads for want of a better word, are these also to be prohibited? because if they are it's turning against 100% real music constructed in real time against a bureaucratic decision, in this case who is right Korg or Looperman?

ok, thanks guys for responses

Joe, Dave: Boy did I misunderstand! :) I didn't realize that there was a restriction on "layering" of loops on Looperman. So, I totally misinterpreted what abelouis was asking about. I'm really glad you found the thread on this forum and were abler to clear things up for him, or at least focus the discussion on the right issue.

While I'm at it, however, I'd be interested in knowing what the logic might be behind a restriction on layering in loops. Is it because loops are more useful to producers if they contain only discrete instruments/sounds, not combinations? So, the producers can decide how to combine the loops, effectively layering them in the track? Or, is there some other reason?

Abelouis: Je m'excuse pour la confusion. Je n'ai pas bien compris votre problme.

Eric

this is all covered in the upload guide.

https://www.looperman.com/forum/thread/182212/simple-ways-to-check-if-your-loops-will-be-rejected

https://www.looperman.com/blog/detail/62/How-To-Make-Quality-Loops-And-Samples-To-Upload-And-Share-On-Looperman

in a nutshell, drums that include guitar, bells that contain whistles, bass that contains trombone, flute that contains grand piano etc are not much use to anyone else.

i do my best to weed out any that are a problem as i see them.

Thanks for the pointer to the Guides, Looperman. I have never considered making or uploading loops, frankly, so haven't read the guides. Should have thought to check them first before posting I guess.

ok thanks looperman :-)

I am guilty as charged for using layering in many of my loops because I love Native Instruments Kontakt Instrument. It draws its power from the ability to layer and sound design your own unique instruments with layers. I am not a hypocrite, I already deleted 500 of my loops and I intend to delete more, sorry loopers. I once had 1.7k+ loops and now I am down to 1.2k loops.

I have synth where I just press a button and it adds a rich sub-bass layer to the synth and not another bus mix track. I love this site and have contributed in nearly all of the major categories here. I respect the policy here, I just disagree with this one because I feel it impedes or otherwise obstructs the creativity of so many. Thank you Shan for clarifying that, I just hope people are listening and reading the rules here.

not sure why you would need to delete anything joe.

i cant see how it impedes you making anything either. a pad or a synth in its essence is often layered and is not a problem. The issue is as i said things like putting drums with a guitar which renders both the drums and the guitar not much use for others

I am really confused about layering here. I am typically on top of most things like this. Layering is a very broad term. It means different things to different people. Quite honestly due to lack of clarity on what constitutes a layered loop and what is not layered loop has a huge grey space to be left up to personal interpretation. I would truly appreciate some clarity on that.

So here is a loop of mine. It has a distortion layer through fxs bus routing generated from the original input sound. Making this sound can also be made on a Roland D50 standalone keyboard.
https://www.looperman.com/loops/detail/120902/dope-rnb-trap-money-style-keys-rhodes-70-by-josephfunk-free-70bpm-rnb-piano-loop

Also another layered loop of mine:
https://www.looperman.com/loops/detail/120456/future-uk-deep-house-synth-122-by-josephfunk-free-122bpm-deep-house-synth-loop

So if tell me if these are acceptable. These are examples of my layering. Sorry for the confusion.

nothing wrong with either of those. if on the other hand you had mixed in drums it would be classed as pre mixed / layered

In terms of sound design, layering is a technique to create a (full) sound. In terms of Looperman, layering is combining two or more tracks from your DAW into an export for a loop. Every now and then I come across a layered loop which indeed is of no use to me since I only want the single sound.