Posted in : Forum : Audio Software Chat
Discuss all things related to audio software such as Acid, Cubase, Reason, GarageBand, Wavelab, Soundforge, Fruity Loops, Traktor, Ableton Live etc
The first time I came to Looperman, I was frustrated. I had been using looplabs.com website, and was used to having a huge library of loops that were automatically all in the same key, and I could just change the key of the whole song simply by selecting the key in a dropdown. Using Reaper with looperman loops, I found that I needed to find loops that all had the same key which since many of them didn't even have the key listed narrowed my loop choices down from 100,000 down to a handful each time I chose a loop with a specific key.
Then I found Magix Music Maker Premium. It has around 4000 loops but they are in Sound Pools. Now I was able to pick a loop I liked from Looperman, and I could surround it with the loops from MMM for which I could simply select the key to match the loop(s) from Looperman. The way MMM seems to achieve this is by having each loop recorded 6 times (in different keys) and then it just picks the copy that matches the key. The problem with MMM is that it crashes a lot and I lose my work a lot.Are there any other DAW's out there that allow you to just pick a key, and it automatically changes at least some of your loops to that key?
What you ask is not entirely possible, especially without a large amount of artifacts or audio anomalies.
Pitch (and subsequently key) is a factor of time. You probably already know from experience that making a loop play at a different tempo than it was recorded at will diminish the quality in certain ways. The same thing applies to changing pitch to recorded audio.
Since a key is not simply defined by it's root note, but also the intervals of all subsequent notes, then it is not a simple matter of transposing the audio. For example, if a loop is in C major, but you want to use it in D minor. If you wanted D major, it would be as simple as transposing by two semitones, however D minor has a few intervals which would be need to adjusted separately from the basic transposing.
This can be done in some software, but the results will vary. Newtone in FL studio is one example. However, the issue is complicated greatly when you have a loop with chords, as opposed to monophonic lines. If a chord has a sour interval when transposed to the new key, then there is very little to be done about it.
@Spivkurl: This difficulty in taking a sound file and changing the key using some algorithm makes me think that the way that DAWs like Magix Music Maker and LoopLabs allow easy changing of the keys is by re-keying the source midi file and exporting to multiple files one for each key. And I'm fine with this too. Are there any DAWs other than MMM that have an easy way of changing keys by using soundpools (loops recorded in multiple keys)?
I have never used MMM at all, and have never seen this sort of function. The odds are that they simply have a selection of the same loop recorded in different keys, which is common to loop packs. I'm not sure how the applications do it, or if the key is indicated by the user, so I can't say beyond that.
The best possible solution is to learn even basic music theory, and possibly an instrument (even if it is a keyboard). This makes it far easier to initiate inspiration from nothing, to adapt existing work to your own, or to adapt your work to a loop which speaks to you.
Nothing does loops, key changes, tempo changes etc better than Sony Acid...unfortunately the Pro version hasn`t been updated since 2012 (I still use it) but the Studio version has many of the same capabilities...you assign the key ( root note) first heard to the loop if it hasn`t been acidized already...If its not known just play up the keyboard or guitar neck till you hit it....It will then play in whatever key you choose from the drop down..and you can insert key (and/or tempo) markers anywhere in your project and have it change to any other selected key etc,,,So if you have a loop in the progression A D E for example you can just chose another key..like G for example and it will then play the loop as G C D....Does a lot of other things with one click & mostly in real time if you like but has been generally disregarded due to Sony`s lack of interest....All the Sony Creative software was recently bought by Magix so maybe something interesting will happen in future.....If they just maintain it I wont complain.....As an aside....I can use it to upload loops that are acidized (key assigned) and beatmapped aleady with less effort than it takes to just u.l. to Looperman specs (beatmapped is what Sony calls it).
Acid may be helpful for sure. I know that when I first started working with loops, I was using Acid. That was before Sony owned it.
Had good luck with it, though I have learned to do things differently and more hands on now.
I am an avid acid user as well, (now have the magix version) and so much can be done with the software, esp with key changes. the other option is to individually change the loops to the new key. As spiv correctly stated some loops may sound ¨Pitch (and subsequently key) is a factor of time. You probably already know from experience that making a loop play at a different tempo than it was recorded at will diminish the quality in certain ways. The same thing applies to changing pitch to recorded audio.¨
But you can experiment and use vst´s to smooth out some anomalies as Acid Pro studio 10 or version 7 allows them. i also suggest you get a lot a ram for your rig or you will have hangups with midi files. or just freeze the midi files into wavś to free up space.
Thanks everyone for the info! I downloaded the 30 day trial of Acid Music Studio 10, and can get that on sale for $36. The Pro version would cost me $150. Will the Music Studio be enough? I have other DAWs like Magix Music Maker Premium and Sonar Home Edition which have VSTs.
Funny thing is that the Trial Acid Music Studio 10 came with Magix Music Maker, and I have the free and Premium versions of that already installed on my machine. It looked like it wanted to overwrite my free version and pull VSTs and Sound Pool loops from my premium version. I didn't want it jacking up my MMM installs so I cancelled it. I'm assuming that it was fine for me to do this, that the MMM install wouldn't add any capabilities directly to Acid? That the MMM install would just give me what I already have in my standalone MMM premium?
@SpivCurl: You mentioned learning music theory and creating my own sounds. While I may do that at some point (I did take guitar lessons for a few years 35 years ago, but sucked at it) I'm not ready for that yet. I mash loops together into songs for pleasure right now. It's like eating a cookie. I do it because it makes me happy, and because I'm addicted to the taste and can't stop at just one. I consume loops like cookies. There never are enough for me. So I wouldn't call what I do art. It is an addiction and I just do what feels good. There is no thought involved and I like it that way. That's why I'm looking for the perfect software tools that will make my loop mashing the most pleasurable, with the least jacking around. :)
neuromancer56, I totally get where you are coming from. There are days where all I want to do is mess with loops and samples. Including the ones I have sampled from my own instruments, my collection is near 200,000 now... and that is without a lot of my own recordings being chopped up yet! Sometimes it is fun to work "in the box!"
Thanks for suggesting Acid. I love it! It doesn't look pretty like some other DAW's but it gives me everything I need and hasn't crashed so far! Here's my first track created with it: https://www.looperman.com/tracks/detail/186836
I'm hoping Magix doesn't screw it up and make it crash as much as Music Maker.
Acid Pro 8 was just recently released.....looks really interesting too....thought you long-suffering users of the formerly great DAW would be interested..You can check it out on Magix Web site.....
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Looper Time : 2018-12-15 09:47:28 | Version l-318