Posted in : Forum : Sampling And Loop Making Chat
Discuss anything regarding sampling and loop making. How to make a loop, where did a sample come from, copyright issues, whats legal and whats not
When checking the loops that users upload the most common problem is files that are not perfect loops. By that i mean that the file suffers from one of the following problems
extra space at the beginning or end
a tail left on, caused by reverb or delay
files not being 2, 4 or 8 bars
The initial check is done by looking at the waveform here on looperman. Its simple to see a loop that fails one of the above situations as the waveform graphic does not line up with the markers.
I also check files by opening them in a daw at the given tempo and then checking the loop point at the correct bar by zooming in at that point.
More often then not the file has been exported from Fruity Loops / FL Studio.
As Im not fully versed with FL Studio myself these days I thought I would start this thread so that users can discuss the best way to export seamless loops from this DAW.
So, those in the know post your wisdom. Once we feel like we have a definitive guide ill make a proper tutorial for the blog and then we can move onto the next DAW
i hope this picture tutorial will help
I generally make my loops as a pattern containing the elements I want in the final loop. It's best to use 4, 8, or 16 beat patterns, with the exception of unusual time signatures. You can route the different "instruments" to whatever mixer channel you like to add effects and things. Then I just select the pattern I wish to export as a loop, and go to file>export>wave file. You will then tell your loop where to go, and what to be named. On the next window, you should have most things set up for you. I always make sure it's 16 bit int setting for the wave depth setting. For the looping mode, I usually find that "wrap remainder" works best. You might not need it if you don't want your tails to continue between loop repetitions, then use "cut remainder". I would suggest never using "leave remainder" if you're intending to upload the loop to Looperman, ad the file will be longer than it should be to loop at the correct tempo. Press start and in a sec you should have a loop that fits the tempo it was set at. I always open my loops in a wave editor to check how they sound and loop, and after that I load them into a DAW set at the correct tempo. This allows you to loop them or repeat them or whatever and you will know that it sounds right at the tempo. If you load it into the DAW with tempo set, and the loop doesn't line up with the measures, then you've probably got something wrong with your export. Hope this helps a little! It's a good thing to encourage new loop uploads!
Well, i allways export a pattern wich I made as a .wav file and fix it in a editor, then I load it up...
thanks Spiv, thats a good walk through.
Anyone else got any tips to add ?
By the way MrDarkside, your email address does not work as I noticed the mail being rejected as unavailable
A subject I'm passionate about and infuriates me, yet I've never even thought to mention before now.
I'm an avid FL studio fan. One of the things that realllllly got my goat was the automatic "cut-off" of tails when rendering loops to WAV.. I found the abrupt ending of said loops very abrasive on the ears and no where near satisfactory for use in tracks.
When I used to upload loops here, I tried to make them as dry as possible so the end user could decide the best way to utilise reverb, delay etc.. but I always included the tail.
The type of loops I uploaded tended to be melodic leads, pads etc etc which had a naturally long release. These inevitably over-ran the 2,4, 8 bar "must-loop-perfectly" rule. but I wouldn't upload them any other way. I felt including the tail provided a more professional, complete sound which the end user wouldn't have been able to achieve without direct access to the VST interface it's self. Even if a loop has a tail, it doesn't take a genius to figure out how to use it correctly. If they *do* encounter problems, then perhaps they should take up a different hobby...
Tails on loops shouldn't be viewed as a negative at all... they're essential.
Thanks Shan for the feedback! I was hoping that was what you were looking for.
@WongKiShoo I know what you mean about the tails, for sure, and when I am making loops for my own use (rarely), then sometimes I will make use of this. To be honest though, when doing this, I don't really consider them loops, I just consider them an audio track. More problems come in with this route if you are trying to use them in your DAW and change the tempo. If your audio is not looped correctly, the DAW won't time stretch it properly, and you'll end up with a mess. So I agree with you in a way, for personal music creation, but for loop distribution there must be some kind of consistency. There is a way around this with short loops that have tails that are as short or shorter than the audio itself. In this case you can just make a pattern that is twice as long as the actual short loop, and includes the tail in the second half. This way your loop is at the correct length for the tempo still, and your tail is there. Here is an example from one of my loops;
You can hear the tail on there in the second half, but it still fits the guidelines of the site, since it loops at the correct tempo. I usually only do this if I wrote the part to be played at the beginning of a sequence and then be "gone" for the second half, because that's how it would loop.
This is a good thread to have here for sure!
@Looperman I have always wanted to add my loops on here for people to use, however Logic Pro X continues to put 2 extra seconds of silence at the end of every exported song. I've looked on how to solve this online and haven't had much luck. It makes me so disappointed. Then I try and fix it in audacity and that still doesn't seem to make the loop seamless. Anyone, is there a way that I can make loops seamless in Logic Pro X and/or is there a software I can use to make seamless loops on mac?
the amount of people who do not export the loops correctly is crazy. so many loops get rejected simply because they have extra space at the end.
Its all about making files that loop exactly and ignoring the extra space at the end of the file or not using the correct export settings means the file is NOT a loop.
I do understand that some files work with a tail but that is often because reverb or delay has been added. If you dont add the effects and leave that to the end user their is no problem.
If the file only work with a tail then thats not a problem but the file still needs to be an exact loop when uploading. Im thinking here like a guitar riff for example. Simply export the file so its exactly four or eight bars including the tail.
Imagine loops as building blocks that need to be exactly the same size for the given tempo and you wont go far wrong.
As the loops section is all about loops it is essential to have consistency. Its not a case of expecting the end user to fix the problems created during the export or get another hobby but a case of exporting them right in the first place.
Most people simply do not know the export settings should be so hopefully this thread and the soon to come tutorials will help avoid problems in future.
Instead of starting new threads we could also have people post their guides to exporting good loops from other DAWS. Ill then create some tutorials to make everyones life easier :-)
by the way WonKi, if there is a certain type of file / loop that you mean let me know an example and we can come up with a guide on how best to do those too
In FL Studio you can place a wave file into the playlist and stretch it to a particular amount of bars. By doing this you can keep the tail end of a loop that may go over the amount of bars you originally wanted. You can also change the type of resampling to either "Auto" or "Pro Transient" if stretching the loop changes the pitch too much.
All of that can be done by double-clicking the wav file and right-clicking the time knob under "time stretching".
The problem is if the initial file is never correct at the tempo its meant to be. its most important to make it right to start with rather then fixing it afterwards
Made this video to show the settings to export loops with fl studio.
@simon224 good video, that's pretty much what I was getting at in my walk through. Your video should be helpful to people!
had to reject lots of loops today that would have been fine if exported properly. If you make loops to upload here PLEASE read this thread and the upload guidelines which can be found here
Its a real pity to reject files that sound great but simply dont loop well and its such a simple mistake and so easy to avoid.
@Looperman... check out my updated loop called 'Epic Intro Synth' to see if it fits the standards. I know it looks like there are a few seconds of silence at the beginning but I downloaded it and it loops fine.
I have this problem. all my uploaded loops have been suspended because of it. I have followed the picture tutorial given by '3n0' and it still won't stay at 2, 4, 8 or 16 bars. When I alter it to be 2, 4, 8, or 16 bars, it seems fine. After I've saved it, I open it in fl studio again and it always runs over what I set it to. Can anyone help?
its just a case of ...
Export as a wav
Output format - Wav
Depth - 16bit
looping mode - either wrap or cut the remainder
options - Save ACIDized, Delay compensation
Pleas keep in Mind "Looperman" this will only work only using Timeline Selection - ( Ctrl+Left-click) & drag in the bar-count area to make a vertical selection across all tracks.If you don't use the Timeline selection ( which when used the highlighted area turns Pink)then Wrap or cut remainder will not be activated therefore leaving the loop unaffected with Potential tail's. hope this helps,for all FL Studio user's refer to the help, under playlist it have a visual on how to do it.
What I normally do is export my project from Garageband to my desktop as an mp3 file and it usually comes out quieter than I need it. So I drag it over into Audacity - which turns it into a WAV file anyway upon export - and zoom in on the very beginning of the waveform. Then using the "drag" cursor available on the top toolbar, I'll drag the whole project until the very first hit or note starts at the beginning line. And of course, I'll amplify it and do some additional changes and upon exporting it to my desktop to replace the mp3 version, it is now a WAV file and ready to upload.
You should always export as a wav otherwise you are loosing quality right from the off.
The loops you uploaded so far dont loop exactly at the correct loop point. this might be dont to you exporting as mp3 and then converting back again.
Yes, turning an mp3 into a wav does not all of the sudden make it high quality. You will be limiting the resolution and frequency range upon export this way.
Ok thanks for the tips, I'll be sure to use WAV a lot more.
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Looper Time : 2019-03-22 14:26:16 | Version l-3110