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The Dub Logbook Including Related Subgenres

Posts 1 - 25 of 189
  1. 247253
    n0mad23 : Mon 17th May 2010 : 8 years ago

    I was talking to my younger brother today, and he was reviewing my latest tracks over the telephone. He said that in this medium, I had yet to make a track that wasn't Dub regardless of what genre I put them in.

    Back in the late 80's I was listening to quite a bit of Tackhead Tapetime, and when my brother came back from a year in the UK, he introduced me to many other incarnations of the On U Sound System boys. Dub Music.

    A lot of my favorite music since the 1980's has in fact been Dub, though it wasn't until the last year that I knew these were actually Dub artists.

    This got me to thinking that we should do a thread similar to dungbeatl's inspired "the ambient logbook" one. Only this time, lets examine Dub in its various manifestations. Topics here should include History, Sub-genres, and bands both popular and obscure. What exactly makes something Dub anyway?

    My next post will be on the history of Dub, beginning with some of the forecasts and technological breakthroughs beginning with the Surrealists in the 1920's.

  2. 341564
    arkeyetexture : Mon 17th May 2010 : 8 years ago

    Ha! Brilant thread! Dub is about subtraction, this i know. Ive got some great links to post in here, just gotta get meh ducks inna line. Very excited to see what post up in this thread. Good one nomas! Ill be back over the next few days, bet!

  3. 341564
    arkeyetexture : Mon 17th May 2010 : 8 years ago

    Good one nomad, sorry iphone fingers.

  4. 60800
    jahknow : Mon 17th May 2010 : 8 years ago

    O hboy oh boy. We want some insight and inspiration eh? :D

    As for defining dub, stick ti wikipedia, it's pretty well laid out where and how it came to be. (B side reggae instrumentals) Dub plates were made by the artist often in one off sessions behind a 8 track mixing console, where the mix/dub came off the tape in a Live fashion, so that the artist could control the mix for their very specific soundsystem. Kinda gave one artist an heads up over the next guy if he could tailor a mix especially suited for 'his/her' club.

    Heavy on effetcs and transitions, dub comes mixed WET with effects. Typical stand alone effects for dub include, reverb, delay, phaser, flanger and that's really bout it. Those effects alone can produce so many variations in sound that one doesn't need much more. But times they are a changin',

    What with digital DAW technology dub has taken off in so many different directions it hard to name em all, but essentially they all are based in a reggae sensibility which is drums and bass. Skies the limit, but simplicity is the key.

    As for a list of my all time favorite dubbers old and new:

    MAD PROFESSOR! if you don't know this artist, you had best catch up fast. Professor has released so many things it's hard to count. He's got so much clout it just isn't funny no mo. Absolutely mad!

    Lee Perry, King Tubby, King Jammy, Scientist, Pablo Moses, Augustus Pablo, Jah Shaka. That'll get you started deep in old school riddim and sound.

    10 ft ganja plant, Badwi, Mungo's hi fi, Vibronics, Iration steppahs, Mikey Murka, Mafia and Fluxy, Kenny Knotts, Lutan Fyah, Three legged larry... that's a firm start on some cutting edge new dubs. So many favorites to list.

    Now as for sub genres that turn my knobs. Of course dubstep (but it's really in it's own league among dub genres).

    Trance Dub like Orb, Massive Attack (produced by mad professor), Ecco, Tosca, Millie and Andrea and SCHPONGLE! if u don't know schpongle go look for the bootleg from Eilat desert Israel, AMAZING live trance dub!

    UK Stepper dub, which has it's roots firmly planted in Rastafari and Biblical knowledge is probably my all time favorite sub genre. It's the pinnacle of conscious music in my personal opinion. Get into Vibronics and Iration Steppahs for that key! THE BEST!

    Now for some links:

    Interuptor! http://www.interruptor.ch/Php5/dubboard/index.php ` much knowledge here!

    dubroom.org http://dubroom.yuku.com/directory home of Net Star Label and the Babylon Observer message boards. Here's where I get my Jah Reasonings fix. Deep meditations in here.

    I've got so very much more to share, but my fingers are getting tired. Keep this thread bumped dubsters.

    Jah Know and the Dub Guild is in it's foundational stages, but I hear and see much talent on LM. CD compilation to come.

  5. 247253
    n0mad23 : Mon 17th May 2010 : 8 years ago

    So nice to see this one taking off already!

    My own rambling, yet hopefully cohesive history of Dub music, drawing from as many invisible histories as not.

    I've been looking at parallel developments and how one thing leads to another while researching this topic. I think the first forecast comes in the 1920's with a Surrealist rally in Paris when Tristan Tzara makes a poem on the spot by pulling words at random from a hat. The Surrealists were really into Collage, so it's pretty easy to see where the printed Dub poem comes from.

    It's also in the 1920's that the word "Dub" enters into the language, via the film industry. Literally a shortening of "Doubling" the term is used for recording audio over a blank track. When I was young, we always asked each other to "dub me a copy of that tape." We can see this also in the language of multitrack recording when we talk about overdubbing a master.

    Meanwhile, in the 1920's Jazz music in its second decade has entered into the Mainstream.

    Flash forward to the 1950's, again in Paris a couple of interesting technological things happen.

    Pierre Schaeffer (avant-garde composer) does his "cut bell" experiments, where he recorded various orchestral instruments onto audio tape and then cut the attack portions off with a razor blade. Without the attack phase of the recordings, it was impossible to tell what instrument had created the notes. A note from a piano or a bell didn't sound like the originals of either, but remarkably similar in their edited state. Furthermore, he found that if you attached the attack phase from one instrument onto the sustain section of another the result sounded more often like the instrument used in the attack phase then the latter. For example, taking the attack phase from a piano and splicing it to the sustain of a flute results in something sounding like a piano. Sometimes the result created an entirely new hybrid - like the attack from a bowed violin note spliced to the sustain of a flute results in something sound more like a hurdy-gurdy than the original instruments (Levitin).

    Also in Paris is Brion Gysin who rediscovers the Surrealist Cut-ups accidentally while cutting out words from newspapers and discovering "happy accidents" beneath. He turns it onto William S. Burroughs at the Beat Hotel. The two then collaborate doing experiments both with printed media and audio recordings on a reel-to-reel. Burroughs says it's an attempt to "decode the material's implicit content" (Cut-up_techniques).

    Not that in Jamaica Ska is forecasting Rock-Steady and Reggae. Ska's influences from Jazz seem relevant somehow.

    Wiki gives the pioneers of Dub music arising in the late 1960's with notables including Lee "Scratch" Perry, Osbourne Ruddock, Errol Thompson and others. These producers were using the term "dub" pretty deliberately and accurately, too, at least in terms of taking a prerecorded track and turning it into something new. "Jamaican producers when making dubs was to use previously recorded material, modify the material, and subsequently record it to a new master mix, in effect transferring or "dubbing" the material" (Dub_music).

    Interestingly, at the same time the term "dub" is being used in Jamaica to describe "a form of erotic dance or sexual intercourse" (Dub_music) with Reggae songs reflecting this with titles such as "Dub the Pum Pum," and "Dub a Dawta." Bob Marley and others used the term on stage to say they wanted "More Bass and Drums!" There have been suggestions the word really enters into the Jamaican lexicon via the patois word for "ghost," i.e. "duppie." Scratch once said that dub is "the ghost in me coming out" (Dub_music).

    All these pioneers are producing Reggae at the time, too (at least the early stages if I'm not mistaken) so this is where the Dub genre kind of crystalizes for some as what it really is. What I'm getting at here, is that Dub is in fact broader at this stage than simply it's Jamaican roots.

    Lot's of vectors leading to the now, but ultimately it's all still pretty fuzzy in my mind. Wiki's intro on Dub_music pretty much reveals I'm not the only one, either. They define the genre as either A) "either an instrumental sub-genre of Reggae music" or B) "a separate genre of music that involves revisions of existing songs" (Dub_music).

    This seem way too limiting to me.

    Especially when I consider Throbbing Gristle (the infamous pioneers of Industrial Music) was using tape samples and loops inspired by Burroughs' experiments, though Peter "Sleazy" Christopherson was using sounds more often than words on his tape machines. Dark Ambient (as all Ambient subgenres) has at least a root or two in Dub.

    Sources I've used and you may want to look up include:

    Levitin - _This is Your Brain on Music_

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dub_music
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cut_ups

  6. 341564
    arkeyetexture : Mon 17th May 2010 : 8 years ago

    JahKnow! yesss he does!

  7. 341564
    arkeyetexture : Mon 17th May 2010 : 8 years ago

    and so does nomad! awsome historical info sir!

    this seemed to be a extremely relevent link....
    how to make dub with computers
    kind dreddy Massian tutorial..........

    http://dubroom.org/archives/frontpage/2006/06/2006-06-08.htm

  8. 247253
    n0mad23 : Mon 17th May 2010 : 8 years ago

    I hadn't heard about Interruptor before today, when dungbeatl sent me a link when I told him I was contemplating this thread.

    The Dub Scrolls are really worth reading. Nice one jah!

    In the Dub Scrolls intro, the lines - "Every producer develops his/her own tricks and techniques to obtain a personal sound, using the possibilities of the equipment given. Quite often limitations of the equipment are the source of new ideas or improvisations leading to a fresh new sound" really struck a chord with me. Dub is a Sensibility and approach that is ultimately one of the most sensual of the musical forms. It's body stuff that speaks with plenty Drum and Bass and that's also plays with perceptions of time with the use of effects, and ultimately the head space that this music leads to.

    I think I've pretty much been doing Dub ever since I traded a giant timber bamboo didgeridoo I'd made for a Laney Lineback amp and a Boss DD2 delay pedal. Did things like use a violin bow on a dulcimer and play to the echoes building really intense walls of rhythmic melody. I used to think it was my influence from Psychedelic music, then figured it was the emulation of distinctly primitive or tribal sounds. Now I'm rethinking it as maybe Dub Spirit, only I've come the roundabout path of the influence of Surrealism, and the inherently trance inducing forms of "primitive" music.

    You guys have put up some awesome links.

  9. 636839
    simmerdown : Mon 17th May 2010 : 8 years ago

    Great stuff so far!

    "It's probably safe to say that, with the exception of punk rock, every significant developement in popular music since the 1960's has in one way or another emerged from the Jamaican dancehall and its tradition of the sound system. (!!!)

    Osbourn Ruddock mentioned above, aka King Tubby , had by 1972 set up his studio and was in great demand, remixing the tracks of Bunny Lee, Glen Brown and most famously , Lee Perry.
    Tubby more or less invented the teechniques of "dub" by dropping parts of the rhythm in and out of the mix, ansd using eq, echo, delay and reverb. He was avirtuoso at the mixing board and and his dubs streched musical space into infinity." **

    Classic King Tubby -tribal war
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnPlX5ggqW0

    Nice!

    ** Shapiro-Modulations (!!! is me,lol)

  10. 341564
    arkeyetexture : Mon 17th May 2010 : 8 years ago

    "Formed in the fall of 1998 by Harrison Stafford, Marcus Urani, and Ryan Newman, Groundation began on the campus of Sonoma State University's Jazz Program. (Between 1999 and 2001, Harrison Stafford taught the first course on the History of Reggae Music at Sonoma State University.) In 1999, Stafford teamed up with Kris Dilbeck to found Young Tree Records and release Groundation's debut album of the same name.

    In 2000 they added to the line up David Chachere, a San Francisco based jazz trumpeter, and Kelsey Howard, a North Bay trombone player. Saxophonist Jason Robinson was a member of the band for a time, and has since gone on to become the head of the jazz program at UC San Diego. Drummer Paul Spina (Les Claypool, Will Bernard's Mother Bug) has been with the group since taking over for James Stafford in December 2001; he left the group in summer 2008. Kim Pommell and Kerry Ann Morgan (both graduates of Kingston's Ashe performing arts school) joined in 2006, and are featured lead vocalists on Groundation's 2009 release Here I Am.

    The 9-piece band creates an altogether new Reggae sound, featuring swirling, jazz/funk inspired horns, stout Latin and African based poly-rhythmics, and soulful harmony vocals. Their concerts utilize live improvisation, in classic jazz fashion, and are renowned for their high energy, communion-type atmosphere. Having gained international notoriety for their progressive fusion style, Groundation regularly headlines major international festivals (Nice Jazz Fest, Summerjam, Sunsplash) and play to huge crowds the world over.

    "Groundation" comes from the Rasta term "Grounation." Grounations were gatherings based on using music to attain common vibration, with the focus on manifesting positive energy to effect social change. Groundation embodies the 21st Century version of this ideal".....wikipedia entry

    if ever anyone one on the west coast has a chance to catch a live show, as they mainly tour west coast. Do it. saw them live recently here in michigan at a very intimate venue. Positive Vibez. real and true bunch of sistahs n bredd's. anyway they usually break into some live flow dub improv. WICKED!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzFac_ch2tM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRb8BTscQfU

  11. 230755
    Unknown User : Mon 17th May 2010 : 8 years ago

    Oh yeah, I'm home! I'm going to be living in this thread for the next six to eight months, gonna keep it live!

  12. 341564
    arkeyetexture : Mon 17th May 2010 : 8 years ago

    and we r just getting started dvM8!

    Crucial view for alla dem rubba dubba headz!

    http://www.dubechoes.com/

  13. 230419
    blackryan : Mon 17th May 2010 : 8 years ago

    I first got into dub in the early 90's when I got introduced to the 'ambient dub' scene here in the UK. I believe the phrase was first coined by a small independant label from Birmingham called Beyond when they release a series of complilations using the name. They were excellent and introduced me to may great acts who I then explored in their own right. Higher Intelligence Agency, Bank De Gaia and Original Rockers to name but a few. If you are interested in the crossover potential of ambient and dub you should try and get a listen. From that starting point I went backwards to listen to the pioneers and in particular liked Augustus Pablo.

    More recently I've enjoyed Dub's influence in so many genres. Check out Basic Channel's 'Octagon' for a lesson in dub techno production. Uk hip-hop meets Dub in Roots Manuva's 'Witness' and
    dubstep artist Burial's productions are excellent. Check out Gutted.

  14. 636839
    simmerdown : Mon 17th May 2010 : 8 years ago

    Thanks for the tip on Burial Ryan!, excellent, new to me and exactly what i like, took me on a whole thread of killer stuff

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3R2WvuLB_E&feature=related

    theres a pretty incongruous vid for 'gutted' but maybe the best route to here a bunch of his work, great lead

  15. 375728
    Cybertooth : Mon 17th May 2010 : 8 years ago

    dang... its hard to read all this, ill get back to it later....

  16. 247253
    n0mad23 : Mon 17th May 2010 : 8 years ago

    @blackryan - Thanks for pulling in "Ambient Dub" as I personally was hoping this was one of the sub-genres we'd be looking into. It's also one of the reasons I started this thread - seems more appropriate to discuss it here than in "the ambient logbook" as I feel the niche is slightly closer to the Dub side of things. Hadn't heard of Higher Intelligence Agency, so I'll be checking into them today. Cheers!

  17. 230755
    Unknown User : Mon 17th May 2010 : 8 years ago

    Yeah, even Sinister Cutie is still exploring the Interruptor link Jah mentioned (even downloaded the siren delay effect, will defo comin handy!). But rest assured, I'm gonna keep bumping this one until I've been through it all, this much info would be a sin to waste. But yeah, so much info I'm glad Cuties done with his exams and has all the time to spare coz I'll be reading this one up for a while! Thanks to everyone taking part in this training session, except for the beatl...I will not thank the beatl! Beatl breaks hearts and heartbreakers are not to be thanked!

  18. 230419
    blackryan : Mon 17th May 2010 : 8 years ago

    @btl u shud really get his 2 albums - seriously good! He was getting nominated left, right and centre for awards and until recently noone knew who he was. Talk about underground.

  19. 636839
    simmerdown : Mon 17th May 2010 : 8 years ago

    y'know, ive got $15 sitting on itunes since
    xmas, and you just reminded me how to spend it, nice, really a good find Ryan, that made my day

    Those vst on interrptor were the first I ever grabbed, i had seen a dubsiren in that Kutiman vid, which led me there. One that is very useful is the 'Tape Delay' which he split off from Dubsiren as a separate tool..throw some vox, or anything thru there for some very dubbalicious noiz. Echolive is also one for any arsenal

    Heres how dubbing is done, right here on the Loop, JK style

    https://www.looperman.com/tracks/detail/51461

  20. 636839
    simmerdown : Mon 17th May 2010 : 8 years ago

    Heres that Kutiman w/ the siren

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAvS0pc9NIw

    some video dub, still one of my alltime favs, i love this one

  21. 230755
    Unknown User : Mon 17th May 2010 : 8 years ago

    @DungBeatl

    sweetness all round in that video, very cool very cool...
    mate what's all that circuitry he shows in the first few seconds in the vid? and that other box he's fiddling with the knobs on? I wannnnniiiiiiiiit! :P

  22. 306233
    Salook : Mon 17th May 2010 : 8 years ago

    Hey guys, brilliant thread Nomad and great start.
    Listening to reggae and Dub music for me is the closest i have been to a religious experience.

    I was brought up in the household subjected to Country music, Willie Nelson, Jim Webb (Genius), Glen Campbell and the sorts, it wasn't untill later in life i started coming across these Reggae covers of country music, familiar to the songs but not the artists.
    I started buying reggae compilations, the ones you would find for next to nothing in a basket, and kept coming across these Lee Perry tracks, they would stick out like a sore thumb in the compilations and i liked what i heard.
    More purchasing led to Lee perry's 'Arkology' and i couldn't get enough of it, it was good introduction to all these other great artists in the genre and a good exploration into Dub, (instrumentals of original tracks).
    So concerning the Country and western side of things i have recently read that American pop music was a huge influence for Jamaican music in the 60's and 70's and the likes of SKA, Rocksteady and Reggae were actual hybrids of Motown, R+B and Soul music.

    Gary Clail is a good example of crossovers, he lived in Bristol which was dominated by black people, and in the tenements he would here these blues parties taking place with Jamaican toasters, he would show interest and take part by singing Irish rebel songs which the old Dreads related to.
    So this is an expression of the demographics in his time, multi-cultures coming together to create hybrid music and sub genres.

    Some great links guys and i have to come back to check more of them out.

    Here is good track, Kocani Orkestar VS Bigga Bush - L'orient est Roots.

    A clash of two different styles of music, Reggae Dub meets Balkan Brass.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJDNcfilvG0

  23. 636839
    simmerdown : Mon 17th May 2010 : 8 years ago

    idk what any of it is, i think that is homemade hardware, the dubsiren included, i actually got the electrical plans for a siren from the web, now i just need an electrical engineer to make it,lol

    all those Kutiman are great, check out '03' to see a bunch of awesome old hardware

    heres a fresh one from Arkeyetexture that is imo perfect for this thread:

    https://www.looperman.com/tracks/detail/66535

  24. 60800
    jahknow : Mon 17th May 2010 : 8 years ago

    Salook! Man I man dub is my religion too! I can feel as if the almighty is directly talking to me through the medium. I personally don't dive into lyrics with my dubs, but they all are well suited for an MC to toast on in a real Rastafari tradition.

    It's a music that can literally shake out my demons and bring I to tears of joy. When I'm tuning into the vibrations I can hear the creator speaking quite directly. Those of us (particularly the us in this thread) who are listening deeply have a GREAT responsibility. That is one of truth, respect, and education. Our music WILL directly influence those young ones to come and the messages behind them will form the attitudes of the listener.

    "We form attitudes, and then our attitudes form who we become."

    No matter what form your music takes, it has impact. How you want that appear is totally up to you. The yutes are a listening and you gotta teach dem to survive inna Babylon. No other way to put it, but dub is a positive vibe and it can't be ignored! Here's the why.

    BASS! Our physical bodies are used to tuning into vibrations (especially harmonic vibrations). The lower frequency vibrations INSTANTLY connect to gut (or better yet our 1st Chakra). When someone says that they are acting on gut feelings it means just that, they are relying on basic survival instincts that are based in our root Chakra. Those are the slowest and most unshakable energetic vibrations. We tune into them at the moment of conception. The beat of the mother's heart, the bio rhythmic vibration that the Earth emits are what we know 1st and what we will rely on LAST as spiritual beings. THIS IS WHY DUB MAKE SENSE.

    You've felt it before on a large soundsystem. That pounding bass that hits your body before you even (or ever) hear it. It resonate son all levels and draws the masses to the sound like mice to cheese. It's what will set the precedence for future generations. We are at the forefront Dub Guilders!

    Lee Perry called his music upsetting music. Many ask 'how can an instrumental track being upsetting?' It's what drives the fyah, it's what shakes the demons from the shadows, and it's what will drive down Babylon. That's an upsetter right there. The thread has already taken on a large directive and is based in a well rooted foundational mindset. I would REALLY like to keep this on track and active among the top threads given it's inherent religious and spiritual topics. You simply can't remove one from the other. There is no dub without Jah.

    PLEASE LISTEN TO THIS:
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=8VwyM_Fnoqs

    None better! Big up yourself and get Massive! Bless Jah and let H.I.M. be praised.

    with much overstanding ~
    Jah Know

  25. 247253
    n0mad23 : Mon 17th May 2010 : 8 years ago

    @Salook - I had to invoke On-U-Sound in the first post, because it's become obvious to me how influential they've been personally, but I'd never really considered it consciously. Gary Clail, Mark Stewart, Keith LeBlanc, Adrian Sherwood - whatever incarnations/manifestations they play in, you can hear that On-U-Sound happening.

    I think it's really significant that Lee "Scratch" Perry is on this label, as was Mickey Dread until his untimely death a few years ago.

    When my brother came back from the UK, he brought back On-U's The Barmy Army - The English Disease. This was released in `89. Here's a few from that one:

    "Civil Liberty"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uu5mX3myNRQ

    "Billy Bonds MBE"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzWng2hlYc8

    "Sharp as a Needle"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vY86vhJI4r0

    "England 2 Yugoslavia 0"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIt2oaGCgLA

    "Devo"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FB0rcUeSs0

    On-U's official site:
    http://www.onu-sound.com/

    Unofficial site:
    http://www.skysaw.org/onu/index.html

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